Author Topic: Ben Shapiro  (Read 19305 times)

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #135 on: October 05, 2018, 12:03:39 PM »
What in the world are you smoking?
If it's a legal thing, assuming there are no laws somewhere remote (third world may not have been the best term) there isn't a concept of "murder"?
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline whYME

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #136 on: October 05, 2018, 12:05:30 PM »
Yes murder is a legal term.
So in other words you're saying that the relevant fact (which doesn't care about your feelings) here is that abortion doesn't currently qualify legally as murder?

That's a straw man argument. Of course nobody says it's currently considered murder legally. His argument is that based on the biological facts it should be considered murder.


Is there a topic about which you will argue in good faith?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #137 on: October 05, 2018, 12:05:48 PM »
Come on, you know how people are using the term, and it has nothing to do with legalities. This is an example of what I mean by arguing in bad faith.
You keep assuming things about me that are incorrect.
Please give me the definition of "murder" being used in this discussion as you see it. Lets see who is arguing in bad faith.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #138 on: October 05, 2018, 12:07:05 PM »
Please give me the definition of "murder" being used in this discussion as you see it.
Of course nobody says it's currently considered murder legally. His argument is that based on the biological facts it should be considered murder.

Offline Freddie

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #139 on: October 05, 2018, 12:08:10 PM »
You like I am basing this on our religious views. I understand religious views are not fact. You on the other hand ...
Simple question. Is the right to choose an individual right?

CM, you know I like you and respect you. I am pointing this out as an interesting thing to think about, not as an argument or debate. I think that what most of the discussions on this forum come down to is that, from a Jewish perspective, religious views (or more precisely the Torah's view) is absolute.

Quote
There are two sorts of statutes: a) statutes that create life, and b) statutes created by life. Human laws are created by life so they vary from land to land according to circumstances. The A-lmighty's Torah is a G‑dly law that creates life. G‑d's Torah is the Torah of truth, the same in all places, at all times. Torah is eternal.

www.chabad.org/6072

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #140 on: October 05, 2018, 12:09:44 PM »
His argument is that based on the biological facts it should be considered murder.
That is an argument everyone disagrees with. There are what you call "facts" on both sides of the argument.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #141 on: October 05, 2018, 12:10:51 PM »
You keep assuming things about me that are incorrect.
Please give me the definition of "murder" being used in this discussion as you see it. Lets see who is arguing in bad faith.

So your understanding of Ben Shapiro's position as stated on this forum that "Abortion is Murder" is that any woman who has a legal abortion should be prosecuted for murder?
Quote from: ExGingi
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #142 on: October 05, 2018, 12:11:56 PM »
CM, you know I like you and respect you. I am pointing this out as an interesting thing to think about, not as an argument or debate. I think that what most of the discussions on this forum come down to is that, from a Jewish perspective, religious views (or more precisely the Torah's view) is absolute.
I understand that 100%. Most religions are that way. Now if only the opposite side can understand what I am saying.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #143 on: October 05, 2018, 12:13:35 PM »
So your understanding of Ben Shapiro's position as stated on this forum that "Abortion is Murder" is that any woman who has a legal abortion should be prosecuted for murder?
I ask you a simple question to explain the definition of "murder". You want to show good faith then answer the question before you ask me another one.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #144 on: October 05, 2018, 12:15:37 PM »
That is an argument everyone disagrees with.
Um, ok

Regardless, his position on abortion is still wholly consistent with his view on rights in general. His opinion is that you shouldn't have the right to murder an unborn child just because it's convenient. Your right to choose (just like every other right) ends where it starts infringing on others' rights.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 12:29:50 PM by whYME »

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #145 on: October 05, 2018, 12:17:48 PM »
That is an argument everyone disagrees with. There are what you call "facts" on both sides of the argument.

Well, clearly not everyone. But that's the point - it's an argument! With valid opinions and arguments on both sides. But you have decided that because he takes one side of the argument he is a hypocrite. Hello pot, meet kettle.

I ask you a simple question to explain the definition of "murder". You want to show good faith then answer the question before you ask me another one.

Premeditated killing.

If mods deleted every post with your inane "answer my question first" posts, there would be about 28 posts left on this whole forum.
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #146 on: October 05, 2018, 12:21:03 PM »
If mods deleted every post with your inane "answer my question first" posts, there would be about 28 posts left on this whole forum.
I wish they would. It would stop all this non-sense.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #147 on: October 05, 2018, 12:24:31 PM »
It is Friday but lets sum this up anyway.
BS and my view are basically the same on abortion.
We both agree on individual rights.
I believe in the women's individual right to choose.
He does not.
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Offline sams

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #148 on: October 05, 2018, 12:29:40 PM »
It is Friday but lets sum this up anyway.
BS and my view are basically the same on abortion.
We both agree on individual rights.
I believe in the women's individual right to choose.
He does not.
Shouldn’t  the fetus have a right to choose?

Offline whYME

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Re: Ben Shapiro
« Reply #149 on: October 05, 2018, 12:30:48 PM »
I believe in the women's individual right to choose.
He does not.

Indeed he doesn't


Regardless, his position on abortion is still wholly consistent with his view on rights in general. His opinion is that you shouldn't have the right to murder an unborn child just because it's convenient. Your right to choose (just like every other right) ends where it starts infringing on others' rights.