Ben Shapiro

[CountValentine]

Yes

Ok, small government? It grew under his watch.

[ExGingi]

Did I just get scammed? He didn't say what I posted?

IDK. One of the immortal phrases I used to hear from my father was "a wise man never says never".

[Something Fishy]

Did I just get scammed? He didn't say what I posted?

...did he? I don't remember him making many of those points, but feel free show me a source.

Regardless, he was clearly very against Trump before the election and came to change his mind as the presidency progressed.

I assume this is a quote from Ben from before the 2016 election. Based on what he said here, he would never vote for Trump. However, it turns out that all that he assumed about Trump didn't materialize. It's foolish to expect him to hold the same position when the facts show his assumptions were wrong.

If you are thinking about Trump, he has explained countless times why he supported him after the election, and very often criticizes his many flaws.

[CountValentine]

...did he? I don't remember him making many of those points, but feel free show me a source.

Found it on this nutcase site daily wire so it might not be true. 
https://www.dailywire.com/news/shapiro-i-will-never-vote-donald-trump-heres-why-ben-shapiro

[Something Fishy]

What world are you living in? Should we go item by item and see if "all that he assumed about Trump didn't materialize"?

Some did, some didn't. Ben is very openly critical about those (and others) that did. But at the end if the day he thinks that Trump ended up doing way more good than bad and so supported him in the next election.

He also clearly wishes Trump won't run again but believes it's inevitable.

[CountValentine]

Some did, some didn't. Ben is very openly critical about those (and others) that did. But at the end if the day he thinks that Trump ended up doing way more good than bad and so supported him in the next election.

He also clearly wishes Trump won't run again but believes it's inevitable.

Now that is a fair assessment.

I don't total agree with it because IMHO his positions changed base more on his audience and not on his principals.

[Something Fishy]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/shapiro-i-will-never-vote-donald-trump-heres-why-ben-shapiro

Well that's as straight from the horse's mouth as its possible to get. But as mentioned numerous times, he changed his opinion since 2016 so this conversation is going in circles.

[zh cohen]

I don't total agree with it because IMHO he positions changed base more on his audience and not on his principals.

Since you don't listen to him much, what is that opinion based on?

[CountValentine]

Since you don't listen to him much, what is that opinion based on?

I am guessing you think I don't watch FOX either? 

[Something Fishy]

Now that is a fair assessment.

I don't total agree with it because IMHO he positions changed base more on his audience and not on his principals.

Lol I don't think many would argue that Trump holds too many principals.

[Something Fishy]

Personally I don't give a hoot about a politician's principals, they're all likely trash regardless. I care about their actions.

[CountValentine]

Lol I don't think many would argue that Trump holds too many principals.

I was talking about Ben. He changed his opinion on Trump based on his audience at the expense of some of his principals.

[zh cohen]

I was talking about Ben. He changed his opinion on Trump based on his audience at the expense of some of his principals.

Or he changed his opinion on trump for the reasons that he said many times, and which you would know if you listened to him. Here is one quote, from before the 2020 election -

There are three reasons I'm going to vote for Donald Trump in 2020 when I didn't four years ago.
First, I was simply wrong about Donald Trump on policy. Second, I wasn't really wrong about Donald Trump on character, but whatever damage he was going to do, he's already done, and it's not going to help if I don't vote for him this time. And third, most importantly, the Democrats have lost their f---ing minds.
...
"I thought he would not be conservative in his governance. I was just wrong on that.
...
I have been very clear on my feelings about Donald Trump's character. I have serious reservations to say the least..., but you don't have to like Trump's character, you don't have to love his Twitter account to vote for him. You don't have to approve of the crazy or bad things that he says or the way he often acts.

[CountValentine]

Here is what he said about the true republican party as he sees it: Establishment Republicans abandoned Reaganism for Bushism, and then abandoned Bushism for McCainism, and then abandoned McCainism for Romneyism.

Can anyone with a straight face say R's are not abandoning the real republican party as he sees it for Trumpism?

[CountValentine]

Or he changed his opinion on trump for the reasons that he said many times, and which you would know if you listened to him. Here is one quote, from before the 2020 election -

I have heard his reasons and IMHO it is a pretzel.
Like I said if you want to go one by one on what he originally said about Trump he was mostly correct.

[Yehuda57]

Ben quit Breitbart over Trump. Sure, it ended up way better for him in the end, but he couldn't have known that at the time. He was also publicly never Trump when his readers and followers were overwhelmingly Trump fans. So unlike most pundits, he actually has a track record of going against his audience based on his principles.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe the hypocrisy and garbage that goes along with being a pundit, including Ben's. I also hate how he is viewed as some sort of gaon and role model by many in our community. But criticizing him for changing his mind about voting pragmatically for Trump in 2020 when he has explained why at length is making the exact opposite point about him you're trying to make.

I don't listen to Ben, I just follow him on Twitter, and even that's enough for me to know why he changed his mind.

Compare that to the never Trump world who refuses to change their opinions on Trump and have praised every Democrat policy and issue that directly contradicts their every opinion until 2016 because of the coverage and fawning they get from the media. *That* is changing your opinion at the expense of principles.

[Yehuda57]

When I say "refuses to change their opinion" on Trump, I don't mean anyone needs to think Trump is a saint. He is still an abhorrent twat. But certain things conservatives (myself included) thought about him were wrong. It was said he wouldn't appoint conservative justices to the SC, that he would be pro abortion, and move left on other social issues. He did not. But Instead of people saying, "I was wrong", like Ben did, they started being in favor of those leftist ideals themselves.

[CountValentine]

Everyone is wrong at some point. You are allowed to change your mind. The point is that most of what he originally said was correct.

[CountValentine]

Here is what he said about the true republican party as he sees it: Establishment Republicans abandoned Reaganism for Bushism, and then abandoned Bushism for McCainism, and then abandoned McCainism for Romneyism.

Can anyone with a straight face say R's are not abandoning the real republican party as he sees it for Trumpism?

Anyone want to take a shot at this? 

[ExGingi]

Everyone is wrong at some point. You are allowed to change your mind. The point is that most of what he originally said was correct.

Except for the word "never"