Ben Shapiro

[ChaimMoskowitz]

His argument is that based on the biological facts it should be considered murder.

That is an argument everyone disagrees with. There are what you call "facts" on both sides of the argument.

[Yehuda57]

You keep assuming things about me that are incorrect.
Please give me the definition of "murder" being used in this discussion as you see it. Lets see who is arguing in bad faith.

So your understanding of Ben Shapiro's position as stated on this forum that "Abortion is Murder" is that any woman who has a legal abortion should be prosecuted for murder?

[ChaimMoskowitz]

CM, you know I like you and respect you. I am pointing this out as an interesting thing to think about, not as an argument or debate. I think that what most of the discussions on this forum come down to is that, from a Jewish perspective, religious views (or more precisely the Torah's view) is absolute.

I understand that 100%. Most religions are that way. Now if only the opposite side can understand what I am saying.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

So your understanding of Ben Shapiro's position as stated on this forum that "Abortion is Murder" is that any woman who has a legal abortion should be prosecuted for murder?

I ask you a simple question to explain the definition of "murder". You want to show good faith then answer the question before you ask me another one.

[whYME]

That is an argument everyone disagrees with.

Um, ok

Regardless, his position on abortion is still wholly consistent with his view on rights in general. His opinion is that you shouldn't have the right to murder an unborn child just because it's convenient. Your right to choose (just like every other right) ends where it starts infringing on others' rights.

[Yehuda57]

That is an argument everyone disagrees with. There are what you call "facts" on both sides of the argument.

Well, clearly not everyone. But that's the point - it's an argument! With valid opinions and arguments on both sides. But you have decided that because he takes one side of the argument he is a hypocrite. Hello pot, meet kettle.

I ask you a simple question to explain the definition of "murder". You want to show good faith then answer the question before you ask me another one.

Premeditated killing.

If mods deleted every post with your inane "answer my question first" posts, there would be about 28 posts left on this whole forum.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

If mods deleted every post with your inane "answer my question first" posts, there would be about 28 posts left on this whole forum.

I wish they would. It would stop all this non-sense.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

It is Friday but lets sum this up anyway.
BS and my view are basically the same on abortion.
We both agree on individual rights.
I believe in the women's individual right to choose.
He does not.

[sams]

It is Friday but lets sum this up anyway.
BS and my view are basically the same on abortion.
We both agree on individual rights.
I believe in the women's individual right to choose.
He does not.

Shouldn’t  the fetus have a right to choose?

[whYME]

I believe in the women's individual right to choose.
He does not.

Indeed he doesn't

Regardless, his position on abortion is still wholly consistent with his view on rights in general. His opinion is that you shouldn't have the right to murder an unborn child just because it's convenient. Your right to choose (just like every other right) ends where it starts infringing on others' rights.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Shouldn’t  the fetus have a right to choose?

You are preaching to the choir.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Indeed he doesn't

Wow, after watching that I am glad my religion does not allow abortions.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

What is BS view on gay marriage? 

[whYME]

What is BS view on gay marriage? 

Basically that government shouldn't be in the business of marriage at all.

[bb1836]

What is BS view on gay marriage? 

He’s said that obviously his religious views don’t condone it, but his main point is that the government should not be involved in who can and cannot get married. Thus allowing gays to be married whether or not he believes they are living in sin. 

[whYME]

He’s said that obviously his religious views don’t condone it, but his main point is that the government should not be involved in who can and cannot get married. Thus allowing gays to be married whether or not he believes they are living in sin. 

yep, basically this. I was just gonna edit my post to make it more clear but you beat me to it.

Bottom line he's pretty libertarian on such issues. The government shouldn't be telling people what they could or cannot do as long as they're not hurting anyone else.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Basically that government shouldn't be in the business of marriage at all.

He’s said that obviously his religious views don’t condone it, but his main point is that the government should not be involved in who can and cannot get married. Thus allowing gays to be married whether or not he believes they are living in sin. 

So he supports the individual rights of gays to get married? That would agree with individual rights.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

What about hurting yourself? Assisted suicide?

[bb1836]

So he supports the individual rights of gays to get married? That would agree with individual rights.

Correct. He believes in individual rights   So long as they do not hurt others.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Correct. He believes in individual rights   So long as they do not hurt others.

See I don't hate him. I agree with some of his positions.