Author Topic: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!  (Read 41740 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2018, 09:44:46 AM »
(attorney here, and not giving legal opinion only thoughts)
What about the tricks we used to get the credit to work on personal cards when the T&C say for business cards only. Does that have any bearing?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline explorer84

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2018, 09:45:04 AM »
Is this the T&Cs before or after the change? I read above that someone said there was a change to the offer terms?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #82 on: August 30, 2018, 09:46:33 AM »
Is this the T&Cs before or after the change? I read above that someone said there was a change to the offer terms?
This would be what they are calling before.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline explorer84

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2018, 09:49:04 AM »
understood, can someone post the "after" T&Cs?

As to the question re: trick to get them to appear on personal cards, I'd say your out of luck. Terms are clear and unambiguous that the offer is for business cards.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2018, 09:50:49 AM »
understood, can someone post the "after" T&Cs?

As to the question re: trick to get them to appear on personal cards, I'd say your out of luck. Terms are clear and unambiguous that the offer is for business cards.
What about the tricks we used to get it work more than once on business cards?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2018, 09:53:19 AM »
understood, can someone post the "after" T&Cs?
Different offer with updated terms.

Details
Get a one-time $100 statement credit by using your enrolled Card to spend a minimum of $500+ on room rate and room charges, when you pay for your stay at The Ritz-Carlton from 8/29/2018 to 12/24/2018. See terms for exclusions.

Offer Terms
Enrollment limited. Must first add offer to Card and then use same Card to redeem. Only U.S.-issued American Express® Cards are eligible. Limit 1 enrolled Card per Card Member across all American Express offer channels. Your enrollment of an eligible American Express Card for this offer extends only to that Card. Offer valid only at The Ritz-Carlton in the US, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, Canada, Mexico, Aruba, and Cayman Islands. Reservations must be made online at ritzcarlton.com, via the Ritz-Carlton App or by calling 1-800-542-8680. Excludes Ritz-Carlton Santiago and all other international properties, Ritz-Carlton Luxury Vacation Packages, Ritz-Carlton Reserve, Ritz-Carlton Residences, Ritz-Carlton Destination Club properties, EDITION, The Cosmopolitan, and timeshare purchases. Excludes The Ritz-Carlton Shop purchases. Excludes gift card purchases. Please note that hotels, car rental companies, cruise lines do not accept prepaid cards for charges authorized in advance, although prepaid cards may be used to settle the final bill. Check to make sure prepaid cards are accepted before attempting to use your prepaid card to take advantage of offers for these merchants. Offer only valid on room rate and room charges. Offer not valid for lodging stays that are paid for before the promotion start date or after the promotion end date. Offer is non-transferable. Limit of 1 statement credit(s) per Card Member. Statement credit will appear on your billing statement within 90 days after 12/24/2018, provided that American Express receives information from the merchant about your qualifying purchase. Statement credit may be reversed if qualifying purchase is cancelled. If American Express does not receive information that identifies your transaction as qualifying for the offer, you will not receive the statement credit. For example, your transaction will not qualify if it is not made directly with the merchant. In addition, in most cases, you may not receive the statement credit if your transaction is made with an electronic wallet or through a third party or if the merchant uses a mobile or wireless card reader to process it. By adding an offer to a Card, you agree that American Express may send you communications about the offer. POID: GC07:0001
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline explorer84

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2018, 09:56:25 AM »
I think that's the main question, but I'd have to see the "after" T&Cs.

Again, this issue - I believe - falls under consumer law, and the standard it the "reasonable consumer" not a "well-versed DansDeal Follower" so the question is "would a reasonable consumer who logged into their Authorized User Business Account and read the Amex Offer T&Cs believe they would receive a rebate for that Authorized User card?" Other considerations would be the "card user agreement" T&Cs too.

Im overly simplfying this. There are other considerations that can be used such as "estoppel" but who knows.

Im sure a crafty lawyer could cobble a class-action.


Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2018, 10:02:02 AM »
I think that's the main question, but I'd have to see the "after" T&Cs.

Again, this issue - I believe - falls under consumer law, and the standard it the "reasonable consumer" not a "well-versed DansDeal Follower" so the question is "would a reasonable consumer who logged into their Authorized User Business Account and read the Amex Offer T&Cs believe they would receive a rebate for that Authorized User card?" Other considerations would be the "card user agreement" T&Cs too.

Im overly simplfying this. There are other considerations that can be used such as "estoppel" but who knows.

Im sure a crafty lawyer could cobble a class-action.
A "reasonable consumer" would only get one credit since they would not know the "well-versed DansDeal Follower" tricks.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Redbull3

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2018, 10:03:49 AM »
Is updating the terms tacit admission that the previous terms were ambiguous?

Offline Geshmak25

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2018, 10:05:55 AM »
Correct me if im wrong, but I dont believe this is an AU issue. The issue is 1 person (ssn/name) using the offer multiple times across many credit cards (whether AU on the same account or other credit card accounts entirely).

My assumption is still that 1 person would be able to receive credit for the offer 1 time. So a 7 person business with cards for each person would be eligible to receive the credit 7 times.
PUTPAC = PITA

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2018, 10:08:42 AM »
Correct me if im wrong, but I dont believe this is an AU issue. The issue is 1 person (ssn/name) using the offer multiple times across many credit cards (whether AU on the same account or other credit card accounts entirely).

My assumption is still that 1 person would be able to receive credit for the offer 1 time. So a 7 person business with cards for each person would be eligible to receive the credit 7 times.
Has anyone that use it only once per different business card received an email?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline explorer84

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2018, 10:13:11 AM »
So my interest is piqued, and I read the Business Plat Card User Agreement found here: https://web.aexp-static.com/us/content/pdf/cardmember-agreements/business-platinum/Business_Platinum_06-30-2018.pdf

You should know there is claim resolution process (page 6). It says you must try to work it out with Customer Service, if they cant help, then you move onto your options. First, you must submit a "Claim Notice" I think its saying you can opt for a mediation or arbitration at that point, not really clear - seems like you can try mediation first, and then go to arbitration. The difference is that mediation is you meet with amex and a neutral third party aka the mediator (who is a licensed attorney and certified mediator). You make pitches to the mediator, and the mediator tries to work it out - he/she does not have any power to make rulings and acts as a devil's advocate and tries to reach an agreement.

If mediation fails, then you can go to arbitration - which means you do not get a jury trial - the arbitrator (a lawyer) will review the documents and make a decision. His/her decision is final and binding, no appeal to the courts, less some exceptions. Says you have to pay for arbitration. Looks like if you reject arbitration you have give Amex notice you reject arbitration. My experience with arbitration is the arbitrators usually favor the companies - why? because the companies wont use the arbitrators if they continually lose (there are plenty of neutral studies on how arbitrators rule against consumers and for large companies, by the way). Arbitrators are companies, not governmental entities and they are looking to make a profit. I'd say go to mediation, reject arbitration, then file in court. In court you may be able to get a jury.

Offline explorer84

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2018, 10:15:15 AM »
Correct me if im wrong, but I dont believe this is an AU issue. The issue is 1 person (ssn/name) using the offer multiple times across many credit cards (whether AU on the same account or other credit card accounts entirely).

My assumption is still that 1 person would be able to receive credit for the offer 1 time. So a 7 person business with cards for each person would be eligible to receive the credit 7 times.

i'd look at it differently, each au has a login. under each login, amex made an "offer" -i.e. the 10% back at staples. the "before terms" suggest that the amex offer is for that card, thus, whoever holds that au card can avail themselves of the amex offer.

Offline US

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2018, 10:19:37 AM »
Has anyone that use it only once per different business card received an email?
Yup!

Offline 12HRS

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2018, 10:19:52 AM »
i'd look at it differently, each au has a login. under each login, amex made an "offer" -i.e. the 10% back at staples. the "before terms" suggest that the amex offer is for that card, thus, whoever holds that au card can avail themselves of the amex offer.

exactly. how many times have people mistakenly used a main card where the offer was added to the AU card and not the main card and they tell you the card used needs to be the one saved.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2018, 10:24:14 AM »
99% of the members here will get killed in arbitration if they are honest. If it is a class action you better have a little old grandma as lead plaintiff.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline explorer84

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2018, 10:32:23 AM »
Truth is if its only a few hundred and you opt for mediation or small claims court, I think Amex offers middle ground because they do have to pay outside counsel to respond to you, prepare and appear at mediation. The hourly rate is going to be greater than $200 so amex is looking at paying between $1,500 to $3,000 JUST to get to mediation.

If we are talking $5,000 (like OP), be prepared to battle.

Defense cost considerations are always number 1 or 2 in dealing with these things. The other consideration is consumer perception.

Offline Geshmak25

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2018, 10:46:49 AM »
PUTPAC = PITA

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2018, 11:55:00 AM »
Staples offer.

Details
Get 10% back as a statement credit each time you use your enrolled Business Card on eligible purchases in-store at Staples or online at Staples.com by 11/30/18. Limit $100 in total statement credits. See terms and exclusions.

Offer Terms
Must first add offer to Card and then use same Card to redeem. Only U.S.-issued American Express® Business Cards are eligible to enroll. Your enrollment of an eligible American Express Card for this offer extends only to that Card. Limit of $100 in total statement credits per American Express® Card Member. Offer valid in-store, via the Staples mobile app and online at Staples.com. Valid at participating locations in US. Not valid on purchases shipped outside of the US. Valid on US website only. Excludes Quill, Smilemaker, Staples Business Advantage, Staples 4 Government, Staples Toner Services, Staples Technology Solutions, Staples Promotional Products, Staples Print Solutions, Copy and Printing Services, Staples Contract and Commercial, Staples App Center, Staples Industrial, Staples Book Rental, Staples Simplexity, Staples Share Fund, Coastwide Labs, Catalog and Staples Fundraising. Not valid for gift cards in bulk purchases. Offer is non-transferable. Statement credit will appear on your billing statement within 90 days after 11/30/18, provided that American Express receives information from the merchant about your qualifying purchase. Note that American Express may not receive information about your qualifying purchase from merchant until all items from your qualifying purchase have been provided/shipped by merchant. Statement credit may be reversed if qualifying purchase is returned/cancelled. If American Express does not receive information that identifies your transaction as qualifying for the offer, you will not receive the statement credit. For example, your transaction will not qualify if it is not made directly with the<br>merchant. In addition, in most cases, you may not receive the statement credit if your transaction is made with an electronic wallet or through a third party or if the merchant uses a mobile or wireless card reader to process it. By adding an offer to a Card, you agree that American Express may send you communications about the offer. POID: GB5E:0001

Different offer with updated terms.

Details
Get a one-time $100 statement credit by using your enrolled Card to spend a minimum of $500+ on room rate and room charges, when you pay for your stay at The Ritz-Carlton from 8/29/2018 to 12/24/2018. See terms for exclusions.

Offer Terms
Enrollment limited. Must first add offer to Card and then use same Card to redeem. Only U.S.-issued American Express® Cards are eligible. Limit 1 enrolled Card per Card Member across all American Express offer channels. Your enrollment of an eligible American Express Card for this offer extends only to that Card. Offer valid only at The Ritz-Carlton in the US, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, Canada, Mexico, Aruba, and Cayman Islands. Reservations must be made online at ritzcarlton.com, via the Ritz-Carlton App or by calling 1-800-542-8680. Excludes Ritz-Carlton Santiago and all other international properties, Ritz-Carlton Luxury Vacation Packages, Ritz-Carlton Reserve, Ritz-Carlton Residences, Ritz-Carlton Destination Club properties, EDITION, The Cosmopolitan, and timeshare purchases. Excludes The Ritz-Carlton Shop purchases. Excludes gift card purchases. Please note that hotels, car rental companies, cruise lines do not accept prepaid cards for charges authorized in advance, although prepaid cards may be used to settle the final bill. Check to make sure prepaid cards are accepted before attempting to use your prepaid card to take advantage of offers for these merchants. Offer only valid on room rate and room charges. Offer not valid for lodging stays that are paid for before the promotion start date or after the promotion end date. Offer is non-transferable. Limit of 1 statement credit(s) per Card Member. Statement credit will appear on your billing statement within 90 days after 12/24/2018, provided that American Express receives information from the merchant about your qualifying purchase. Statement credit may be reversed if qualifying purchase is cancelled. If American Express does not receive information that identifies your transaction as qualifying for the offer, you will not receive the statement credit. For example, your transaction will not qualify if it is not made directly with the merchant. In addition, in most cases, you may not receive the statement credit if your transaction is made with an electronic wallet or through a third party or if the merchant uses a mobile or wireless card reader to process it. By adding an offer to a Card, you agree that American Express may send you communications about the offer. POID: GC07:0001

Correct me if i am wrong, but the staples offer is the "new" terms that say "Limit of $100 in total statement credits per American Express® Card Member"
While the marriot offer is later, that reflects a new set of terms.

The old ones that we all got tons of credits on said "Limit 1 statement credit(s) per American Express online account."
See below for best buy from 11/2017
Best buy spend 250 get back 25 or 2500 Mr. I got only cash back. expires 12/31
So far got it on all personal no biz. Still checking cards.


Enrollment limited. Valid at any participating location in the US and US Territories. See merchant website for shipping policy. Some merchants may not ship to all areas. Not valid for e-gift card purchases. Excludes corporate gift card purchases. Excludes Best Buy Express, Geek Squad services made outside of Best Buy, Best Buy Parts Store, Best Buy Private Store & Auction or at standalone Pacific Sales stores. Offer is non-transferable. Must add offer to Card and use same Card to redeem. Limit 1 statement credit(s) per American Express online account. Statement credit will appear on your billing statement within 90 days after 12/31/2017, provided that American Express receives information from the merchant about your qualifying purchase. Note that American Express may not receive information about your qualifying purchase from merchant until all items from your qualifying purchase have been provided/shipped by merchant. Statement credit may be reversed if qualifying purchase is returned/cancelled. If American Express does not receive information that identifies your transaction as qualifying for the offer, you will not receive the statement credit. For example, your transaction will not qualify if it is not made directly with the merchant. In addition, in most cases, you may not receive the statement credit if your transaction is made with an electronic wallet or through a third party or if the merchant uses a mobile or wireless card reader to process it. By adding an offer to a Card, you agree that American Express may send you communications about the offer. POID: G9RE:0001

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Offline explorer84

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Re: AMEX CLAWING BACK AMEX OFFERS CREDITS!!
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2018, 12:07:16 PM »
whats the question?