Serious Halachic Question

[Z56]

I think it’s completely disgusting of these people offering $50 each when they are making upwards of $500 each. Taking advantage of the masses and those who don’t know better...

people sell products with profits over $500 and you don't know how much profit they are making

in this case everyone knows aprox. how much the brokers are making

[ChaimMoskowitz]

As of now people seem to be.
The question is if it's just a bubble.

Who and don't say eBay.

people sell products with profits over $500 and you don't know how much profit they are making

in this case everyone knows aprox. how much the brokers are making

You have no idea what commitments the buyers have made.

[davidrotts63]

Who and don't say eBay.

EBay.

Jk. I've seen offers for $400 and they presumably have a plan how to be turning a profit from there.

[ExGingi]

IMHO, reneging at a commitment after the deal went live is wrong, even if there's no mi shepara - might just be a case of ועשית הישר והטוב.

However, up until the deal went live, and definitely hours or a day prior, it would be OK to cancel the commitment if someone committed to a higher price. To use @Yehuda57's analogy, it's OK to cancel a restaurant reservation if you don't like the prices, but once you've ordered, it's not OK to get up and leave just because you decided that you can get a better bite somewhere else, without paying for what you've ordered (unless you actually took a bite at what you've ordered and it's actually bad).

[ChaimMoskowitz]

IMHO, reneging at a commitment after the deal went live is wrong, even if there's no mi shepara - might just be a case of ועשית הישר והטוב.

However, up until the deal went live, and definitely hours or a day prior, it would be OK to cancel the commitment if someone committed to a higher price. To use @Yehuda57's analogy, it's OK to cancel a restaurant reservation if you don't like the prices, but once you've ordered, it's not OK to get up and leave just because you decided that you can get a better bite somewhere else, without paying for what you've ordered (unless you actually took a bite at what you've ordered and it's actually bad).

No this is not the same thing. The buyer can/will be making commitments based on your agreement with him. This is giving someone your word and keeping it. What is so hard to understand.

[ExGingi]

No this is not the same thing. The buyer can/will be making commitments based on your agreement with him. This is giving someone your word and keeping it. What is so hard to understand.

I am not familiar with the coin business, but the buyer who accepted your commitment, accepted it knowing that it might not materialize for a variety of reasons beyond any of the two agreeing parties control, as well as for reasons that could be controlled by one party (didn't get to a computer, failed to register with the mint, etc. etc.). After the deal went live, one party gave the other one hour to provide order information, or lose the commitment.

Due to these factors, I think it could be acceptable to back out PRIOR to the coin sale going live, though the right thing to do if one was to back out due to a better offer from someone else, would be to give the opportunity to match the higher bid, at which point they could accept or reject. (and they can choose to reject doing business in the future).

Price isn't everything. One can choose to take a bid with at a worse price point (lower if a seller, higher if a buyer) due to other factors that affect the overall transaction.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

I am not familiar with the coin business, but the buyer who accepted your commitment, accepted it knowing that it might not materialize for a variety of reasons beyond any of the two agreeing parties control, as well as for reasons that could be controlled by one party (didn't get to a computer, failed to register with the mint, etc. etc.). After the deal went live, one party gave the other one hour to provide order information, or lose the commitment.

Due to these factors, I think it could be acceptable to back out PRIOR to the coin sale going live, though the right thing to do if one was to back out due to a better offer from someone else, would be to give the opportunity to match the higher bid, at which point they could accept or reject. (and they can choose to reject doing business in the future).

Price isn't everything. One can choose to take a bid with at a worse price point (lower if a seller, higher if a buyer) due to other factors that affect the overall transaction.

Yes there are factors involved that can go wrong. One of them is not you backing out of the agreement because you feel like it. If both parties agree to it then that is different. Otherwise I can't believe we are having a discussion about honoring a commitment. Now I know why disagree on so many things.

[aygart]

Based on the way @ExGingi desribed this I can see why it may be okay to back out before sending the order info. It is only upon sending it that there is a commitment.

[stooges44]

Did someone hijack @mmgfarb login? First this and now this thread 

[ChaimMoskowitz]

Did someone hijack @mmgfarb login? First this and now this thread 

Rumor is he is hitting the pipe. 

[mmgfarb]

Did someone hijack @mmgfarb login? First this and now this thread 

Boy do you have a lot to learn.

[mmgfarb]

Rumor is he is hitting the pipe. 

[aygart]

Rumor is he is hitting the pipe. 

[mmgfarb]

I thought I speciffically told you NOT to share that picture here 

[ExGingi]

Yes there are factors involved that can go wrong. One of them is not you backing out of the agreement because you feel like it. If both parties agree to it then that is different. Otherwise I can't believe we are having a discussion about honoring a commitment. Now I know why disagree on so many things.

A tells B, there's this potential deal that you MIGHT be able to get, if you're able to get it I will purchase it from you for $50 over your paid price as long as you deliver as instructed.

B agrees to the terms.

BEFORE the deal goes live, B learns that the profit offered by A is below market value.

B calls A and says I have learned that you got me to agree to a lowball offer, will you raise your offer to match the market.

A can say any of the following: 1. Yes, I will raise my offer, 2. No, but if I find out that you sold to someone else, you are in violation of our agreement. 3. No, because I have a great reputation, and always stick to my commitment, even if market goes south, the choice is yours - but remember that it is a two way street.

B has various choices, depending on what A says. One of those choices is to simply pass on the deal. I think most reasonable people would stick to their current commitment (unless they actually tried to renegotiate) but might do more shopping around in the future.

[davidrotts63]

Is there any correlation between the rise in weed stocks, and this outburst?

[mmgfarb]

Is there any correlation between the rise in weed stocks, and this outburst?

There's a connection somewhere that you're missing but I'm not going to spell it out for you.

[aygart]

I obviously have a vested interest and a biased opinion, but some of these comments here and on those other boards that were deleted are TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE.

I had a friend - who didn't even commit to my deal - tell me today that he's thinking about holding this for the "long term" because it's up so strong and the Palladium bla bla...

Go over the list of 10-15 deals I've run in the last 3-4 years on these forums. Not one -not a single one - will you find the current price of the coin/set/medal above what it was at the initial hype stage.

You'll also see that the offer we had then - which we cannot give offers based on temp hyped (fake) prices - was fair and in MOST cases actually higher than where the coins settled.

We had 4-5 deals that didn't even sell out and that the Mint lifted mintage limits which enabled us to buy all the coins we wanted directly from the mint.

Anyway, no time to get into this now.
All the best.
Good Shabbos and a Shana Tova U'Mesuka to all!

[ChaimMoskowitz]

A tells B, there's this potential deal that you MIGHT be able to get, if you're able to get it I will purchase it from you for $50 over your paid price as long as you deliver as instructed.

B agrees to the terms.

BEFORE the deal goes live, B learns that the profit offered by A is below market value.

B calls A and says I have learned that you got me to agree to a lowball offer, will you raise your offer to match the market.

A can say any of the following: 1. Yes, I will raise my offer, 2. No, but if I find out that you sold to someone else, you are in violation of our agreement. 3. No, because I have a great reputation, and always stick to my commitment, even if market goes south, the choice is yours - but remember that it is a two way street.

B has various choices, depending on what A says. One of those choices is to simply pass on the deal. I think most reasonable people would stick to their current commitment (unless they actually tried to renegotiate) but might do more shopping around in the future.

We can round and round all you want with these scenarios. It doesn't get any simpler for me. You gave your word, so honor it.

Here is how it went down for me. Received a message if I was buying coins he would take them. I said what ever I get you can have. That was it. Can I get more elsewhere, of course but that is meaningless.

[whYME]

Yes there are factors involved that can go wrong. One of them is not you backing out of the agreement because you feel like it. If both parties agree to it then that is different. Otherwise I can't believe we are having a discussion about honoring a commitment. Now I know why disagree on so many things.

IDK, considering that the whole discussion here is about two parties banding together to screw a 3rd party (isn't that what these "deals" basically always* are, snatch it quickly before the guy who really wants it gets it then turn around and sell it to him with a markup?) so I'm not sure it's to be unexpected if they screw each other...

*the iphone were a notable exception, there you're actually providing a service in sending them to markets where they're otherwise unavailable.

(I have a feeling I'm gonna get killed for this post )