Topic Wiki

Credit Bureau Info:

Experian: 800-493-1058 With A Report Number

Experian: 714-830-7000 (Without A Report Number) Call and Press 0. You will get connected to the switchboard operator. Tell them you just called in and entered your report number and the automated system disconnected you. Ask them if they can get a human on the line for disputes. That's the only way you'll be able to get through to a live person at Experian without a Report Number.

Equifax: 800-846-5279

TransUnion: 800-916-8800


Comparison between FAKO from Credit karma and FICO from Barclays and Citi.


Cards that give you free monthly FICO's


AMEX personal cards = EX 08 Switched to FAKO (VantageScore 3.0)
Chase Slate = EX (either 08 or Bankcard enhanced)
PSECU = EX 04

Citi branded cards = EQ 08 Bankcard enhanced
Citi AA = EQ bankcard enhanced
DCU= EQ 04
PenFed = EQ NextGen
Elements Financial (Credit Union, score available for without opening CC) = EQ 5

Barclays = TU 08
Discover it = TU 08
Walmart (store or MC) = TU 08
« Last edited by Lev26 on April 13, 2022, 02:28:07 AM »

Author Topic: credit score  (Read 610540 times)

Offline PillanSmye

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3320 on: December 27, 2016, 11:42:33 AM »
they all write FICO on the site, but many arent actually real FICO scores
FICO® is a registered trademark of FICO,  so you do not see companies listing FICO scores that really are not FICO scores.

Offline PillanSmye

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3321 on: December 27, 2016, 11:52:40 AM »
If all the credit available to you across all you're cards on your CR goes down, it hurts your score. The ratio between available credit and how much you're using is 30% of your score.

So making a blanket statement like "If all the credit available to you across all you're cards on your CR goes down, it hurts your score" is actually fallacious.  Since you don't know and didn't ask how that move would affect utilization on that particular card and on aggregate you have no way of knowing the score effects.

Offline jsk173

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3322 on: December 27, 2016, 01:44:49 PM »
Right, but not many people who have credit cards make sure that every one of them closes with a $0 reported balance every month. The guy's point was basically correct for anyone who uses credit cards in a normal manner.

Offline mmgfarb

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credit score
« Reply #3323 on: December 27, 2016, 01:54:36 PM »
The guy's point was basically correct for anyone who uses credit cards in a normal manner.
I was giving general advice, obviously everyone's credit is going to be affected differently but without a lot more information the only thing I could do is generalize. 
All this about available credit and your score is dependent on your own credit file. I can close cards with 100k of available credit and it wouldn't effect my score. Your goal should be to get to the point were you don't have to play all these different games.
This is the goal but the OP probably isn't there.
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Offline PillanSmye

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3324 on: December 27, 2016, 02:37:19 PM »
Right, but not many people who have credit cards make sure that every one of them closes with a $0 reported balance every month. The guy's point was basically correct for anyone who uses credit cards in a normal manner.

No it's not basically correct.   What it is is basic math.  Unless the decreased/closed credit lines shift utilization into different statistically meaningful categories it's not going to change your score.

I had  5 CC's report balances last month ranging from $20 to $25,000.  I could close a $35,000 CC today and my score would barely budge, possibly not move at all.

Offline jsk173

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3325 on: December 27, 2016, 03:06:40 PM »
I don't recall the guy claiming the person's credit score would be dramatically affected, but unless the person makes sure that every credit card closes with a $0 balance reported, closing one or more cards would mean the person's utilization would increase. "Simple math," as you put it.

Offline JTZ

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3326 on: December 27, 2016, 03:11:24 PM »
I don't recall the guy claiming the person's credit score would be dramatically affected, but unless the person makes sure that every credit card closes with a $0 balance reported, closing one or more cards would mean the person's utilization would increase. "Simple math," as you put it.
A utilization increase doesn't automatically mean a score drop. It could have the opposite affect on rare occasions.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline PillanSmye

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3327 on: December 27, 2016, 03:45:46 PM »
I don't recall the guy claiming the person's credit score would be dramatically affected, but unless the person makes sure that every credit card closes with a $0 balance reported, closing one or more cards would mean the person's utilization would increase. "Simple math," as you put it.

Again,  you're just plain wrong.

Read my whole statement,  try focusing on the "Unless the decreased/closed credit lines shift utilization into different statistically meaningful categories it's not going to change your score."   Let me know what part of that is confusing you and I'll do my best to help you understand.

Offline JTZ

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3328 on: December 27, 2016, 03:55:17 PM »
Let me know what part of that is confusing you and I'll do my best to help you understand.
Maybe you can explain scoring buckets?  :)
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline jsk173

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3329 on: December 27, 2016, 04:01:54 PM »
Again,  you're just plain wrong.

Read my whole statement,  try focusing on the "Unless the decreased/closed credit lines shift utilization into different statistically meaningful categories it's not going to change your score."   Let me know what part of that is confusing you and I'll do my best to help you understand.

None of it is confusing me, and none of it seemed to be confusing the guy who gave the original advice.

I'm well aware of the so-called "$2 trick" (which, presumably, is the situation suggested by JTZ in which increased utilization could mean a score increase) and all that. The fact remains, as a general matter for the average CC holder, a non-trivial increase in utilization will mean a drop in FICO score, whether it's one point or a hundred.

Offline JTZ

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3330 on: December 27, 2016, 04:06:34 PM »
(which, presumably, is the situation suggested by JTZ in which increased utilization could mean a score increase) and all that.
That is correct but I was referring to scoring buckets which most have little to no knowledge of.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline jsk173

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3331 on: December 27, 2016, 04:33:54 PM »
That is correct but I was referring to scoring buckets which most have little to no knowledge of.

I've never heard of a scenario in which a person was rebucketed due to a non-trivial increase in utilization and it resulted in an increased FICO score.

Offline JTZ

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3332 on: December 27, 2016, 04:57:23 PM »
I've never heard of a scenario in which a person was rebucketed due to a non-trivial increase in utilization and it resulted in an increased FICO score.
When you get rebucketed don't you then get scored against those in that bucket or an I understanding it wrong?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3333 on: December 27, 2016, 05:07:39 PM »
When you get rebucketed don't you then get scored against those in that bucket or an I understanding it wrong?

You do, but other than the $2 trick, I've never heard of an increase in credit card utilization resulting in an increased FICO score when everything else on the credit report remained the same.

Offline JTZ

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3334 on: December 27, 2016, 05:17:27 PM »
You do, but other than the $2 trick, I've never heard of an increase in credit card utilization resulting in an increased FICO score when everything else on the credit report remained the same.
So lets say the current bucket I am in I am near the bottom. My utilization changes and I am put into another bucket. Depending where I am now in that bucket my score can go up or down.

This is all guess work on how many buckets there is and what they are.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

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credit score
« Reply #3335 on: December 27, 2016, 05:20:37 PM »
This is all guess work
This is exactly why I gave the answer I did
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline PillanSmye

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3336 on: December 27, 2016, 06:00:38 PM »
Maybe you can explain scoring buckets?  :)
I've taken Statistics courses,  so segmentation of population groups into trees/leaves as opposed to looking at the population as a whole is easy to understand.

Here's a basic article from FICO on segmentation theory: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.fico.com/en/node/8140%3Ffile%3D9737&ved=0ahUKEwiJj9nctZXRAhWLiVQKHbRFB9MQFggcMAE&usg=AFQjCNGxl1cJttydYzADd4zJA_vyZtdnUw

Here's  a more in-depth article on FICO Scoring:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.fico.com/en/node/8140%3Ffile%3D7900&ved=0ahUKEwiJj9nctZXRAhWLiVQKHbRFB9MQFggeMAI&usg=AFQjCNGielnBa6htljK3RZJ4BV5F5kJUIg

And here's a little tidbit that has direct implications on this topic: In the case of numeric variables, scorecard developers may want to choose knots between bins that are located at convenient or “nice” values  In other words, the entire dataset isn't "rolling",  but is rather "stepped"  in many variables.   

For utilization,  that can mean that scoring will not changed between tenths of a percent,  and in some bins even 8%. 

For negatives on the other hand these numerical values would be time.  Like how you wont see a score increase/difference between 72 months past a late or 74 months,  but you will see an increase/difference between 72 months and 84 months.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 06:05:03 PM by PillanSmye »

Offline jsk173

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3337 on: December 27, 2016, 07:44:24 PM »
No sense going in circles, but I've literally never seen a single example of someone on a board like this saying their utilization went up by a non-trivial amount — i.e., not simply going from $0 on all cards to $2 on one card — and their FICO also went up. Theoretically possible, I guess, but not something I've ever seen claimed.

Offline noturbizniss

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3338 on: December 27, 2016, 11:38:36 PM »
Here, from myfico ultimate 3B.
All 3 bureaus, all have only 1 change showing, my citi CC closing with $11 balance. previous close was $0. No other changes to the CR. All 3 have random different pieces of info - i.e. different accounts, different ages, etc.  The key takeaway is that the exact same info on all 3 had 3 directionally different results. Ex up, TU Down, EQ no change.
As such, it is far from unreasonable to expect a reduction in utilization result in an increased score.

The TU change is also the $11 only. nothing else.

READ THE DARN WIKI!!!!

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Offline PillanSmye

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Re: credit score
« Reply #3339 on: December 28, 2016, 12:14:37 AM »
No sense going in circles, but I've literally never seen a single example of someone on a board like this saying their utilization went up by a non-trivial amount — i.e., not simply going from $0 on all cards to $2 on one card — and their FICO also went up. Theoretically possible, I guess, but not something I've ever seen claimed.

I'm not going in a circle.  My position is in the same place.  I stated an increase in utilization does not absolutely guarantee a decrease in score.

I know someone who the $2 trick doesn't work for, but if they let $1K report they get a score boost.  So for them it is the $1K trick.  This person has about $1mm in available revolving credit and is well versed in CC's, FICO etc.  So it's not "theoretically possible", but in fact is a reality for certain profiles.

Did you read any of the links I supplied?  Or too busy?