Author Topic: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"  (Read 26103 times)

Offline stooges44

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Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« on: October 10, 2018, 12:41:13 PM »
What do people do on Shabbos with a modern refrigerator where you can't simply tape over the light switch?

There are some models that are officially star k certified: https://www.star-k.org/appliance/#tp-2-Refrigeration+Products with a Shabbos mode

But there are others that are not and the sales guy pointed me to this: http://www.zmantechnologies.com/store/shabbos-keeper.html ($200) which apparently automatically puts the fridge in Shabbos mode every Shabbos and yom tov simply by entering your zip and it's programmed with the start and end times of every Shabbos and yt for the next 30 years.

So my options are:
1) get an old school fridge
2) get an officially star k certified fridge
3) get the "Shabbos keeper" gadget

(The eino yehudi salesman said that every GE fridge has a shabbath mode! Star k said that GE sat with them to work out the mode but ultimately did things on their own and thus star k can't certify it)

 
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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 01:09:53 PM »
What do people do on Shabbos with a modern refrigerator where you can't simply tape over the light switch?

There are some models that are officially star k certified: https://www.star-k.org/appliance/#tp-2-Refrigeration+Products with a Shabbos mode

But there are others that are not and the sales guy pointed me to this: http://www.zmantechnologies.com/store/shabbos-keeper.html ($200) which apparently automatically puts the fridge in Shabbos mode every Shabbos and yom tov simply by entering your zip and it's programmed with the start and end times of every Shabbos and yt for the next 30 years.

So my options are:
1) get an old school fridge
2) get an officially star k certified fridge
3) get the "Shabbos keeper" gadget

(The eino yehudi salesman said that every GE fridge has a shabbath mode! Star k said that GE sat with them to work out the mode but ultimately did things on their own and thus star k can't certify it)

I would venture to say that option #3 (zman technologies device, or ShabbatPro by Supco) are the safest bets from a שמירת שבת perspective (though I don't know what they do to refrigerator life, supposedly they take that into consideration).

I don't know that any "old school" refrigerators are actually available on the market today. As for certified models, you are extremely limited, and things can always change.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline theblakdavid

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 01:13:00 PM »
They sell magnets that you can place over the sensors of the newer fridges. It should work for most fridges. Don't know who makes them, the store here in Monsey, Auction Mart, sells them and has a list of where to place them on each fridge. They work very well for the fridges that don't have an easy tape-over switch

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 01:19:50 PM »
They sell magnets that you can place over the sensors of the newer fridges. It should work for most fridges. Don't know who makes them, the store here in Monsey, Auction Mart, sells them and has a list of where to place them on each fridge. They work very well for the fridges that don't have an easy tape-over switch

Are you certain that the magnets solve all Shabbos issues?

See: http://www.zomet.org.il/eng/?CategoryID=253&ArticleID=143 and http://www.kerenby.co.il/page/%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%A7%D7%9F--%D7%A9%D7%91%D7%AA-%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%98%D7%9B%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%92%D7%99-%D7%9C%D7%94%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%94
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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 01:21:07 PM »
They sell magnets that you can place over the sensors of the newer fridges. It should work for most fridges. Don't know who makes them, the store here in Monsey, Auction Mart, sells them and has a list of where to place them on each fridge. They work very well for the fridges that don't have an easy tape-over switch
anyone know where a list like that can be found?

Offline Dan

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 01:21:48 PM »
We have Electrolux. Shabbos mode works well.
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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 01:31:32 PM »
What do people do on Shabbos with a modern refrigerator where you can't simply tape over the light switch?
I don't know that any "old school" refrigerators are actually available on the market today.
If you're just referring to sensors vs switches when you say old school, then there are definitely plenty old school models out there. I bought a Kenmore last year (popped up on DDF again recently for even less than I paid), and it has a switch for each door of the fridge, and one for the freezer as well. Took me a while to find a reliable method to tape it down - until I saw someone suggest using command strips, which worked like a charm.

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2018, 01:41:52 PM »
We have Electrolux. Shabbos mode works well.

I have a GE and put it on Shabbos mode every week. How does one know if it works well?

If you're just referring to sensors vs switches when you say old school, then there are definitely plenty old school models out there. I bought a Kenmore last year (popped up on DDF again recently for even less than I paid), and it has a switch for each door of the fridge, and one for the freezer as well. Took me a while to find a reliable method to tape it down - until I saw someone suggest using command strips, which worked like a charm.

As far as I understand things, the sensors vs switches is just a technical interface issue, there might be a lot more things going on. Which is why I feel that from a שמירת שבת perspective one is safest with a device like Zman Technologies or the Supco device, which totally disconnect power to the refrigerator on a schedule, and let you know when power is on or off.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ushdadude

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Offline as2

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2018, 01:54:21 PM »
I have a Samsung refrigerator, and it uses magnets instead of switches to determine whether the doors are open. I picked up a few strong magnets at home depot for a couple dollars, and it does the trick. I just make sure they are in place before shabbos, and open and slam each door a few times before shabbos to ensure they won't move.
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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2018, 02:04:19 PM »
I have a GE and put it on Shabbos mode every week. How does one know if it works well?

As far as I understand things, the sensors vs switches is just a technical interface issue, there might be a lot more things going on. Which is why I feel that from a שמירת שבת perspective one is safest with a device like Zman Technologies or the Supco device, which totally disconnect power to the refrigerator on a schedule, and let you know when power is on or off.
The highest level of chumrah in this sugya is to get Shabbos Keeper or ShabbatPro, or a refrigerator that has a shabbos mode that provides essentially the same functionality. Those address the following issue from your link:
Quote
f. "Mehadrin" requirements – Some people are very strict and will not open the door of a refrigerator while it is not working, fearing that to do so will cause the thermostat to turn the compressor on immediately....
As noted above, The Zomet Institute feels that it is not necessary to purchase such a special mechanism (which will typically have a relatively high maintenance cost).
Not every refrigerator labeled with a shabbos mode does the same thing.

If however you're not keeping that chumrah, and holding by this:
Quote
a. The vast majority of people accept the ruling by most rabbis that a refrigerator can be used without paying attention to the thermostat and without fear that opening and closing the door will cause the compressor to be turned on or to stay on for a longer time. Note that this approach has a firm halachic basis.
then it's fairly easy to see whether covering the door switches (or sensors with a magnet) is preventing the vast majority of the issues (lights, fans, etc.). If you're in that situation, the only other issue they point out is this:
Quote
However, in some models the computer receives its own independent information about the status of the door from another sensor, often a magnetic detector (which closes a switch when the door is opened) that is not visible from the outside (it is usually on the inside of the doorpost). In this case, jamming the switch on the door will not solve the problem!
Whether this is problematic at all is not agreed upon either. For example, I can't imagine the Star-K holds of this as a problem in and of itself, considering their shitos regarding oven temp change on yom tov.

Offline stooges44

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2018, 02:04:32 PM »
I have a Samsung refrigerator, and it uses magnets instead of switches to determine whether the doors are open. I picked up a few strong magnets at home depot for a couple dollars, and it does the trick. I just make sure they are in place before shabbos, and open and slam each door a few times before shabbos to ensure they won't move.

what about these?

Icemakers are deactivated
Water dispensers are deactivated
Auto defrost system is fully automated
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Offline as2

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2018, 02:08:09 PM »


what about these?

Icemakers are deactivated
Water dispensers are deactivated
Auto defrost system is fully automated

I don't believe I have any of those feature. I can say with certainty I don't use the first 2.
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Offline IGBES

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2018, 03:56:29 PM »
Have a Thermador refrigerator/freezer, with Shabbos mode. While on "Shabbos mode", it's not as cold as during the week, hence causing the food to go bad quicker...

Offline stooges44

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2018, 04:51:09 PM »
We have Electrolux. Shabbos mode works well.

what model?
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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 11:27:33 PM »
This topic needs much more awareness.
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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 02:22:38 AM »
 while on this topic can one untwist the bulb in the fridge and open and close the door while the button being pressed in and out every time you open the fridge?
 Meaning does the button in the fridge which gets pressed in when you shut the door and unpressed when you open the door, does the button do anything else aside for flipping the switch on for the bulb and off?
 Or is there a problem letting the current of the electricity flow when opening the door to the fridge or freezer?
  I've seen many ppl who unscrewed their bulbs before shabbos instead of buying the shabbos velcro to cover the switch?
Quote
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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 09:01:48 AM »
I have a Samsung and use the magnets on top of the fridge to keep the lights off
as far as ice dispenser or water dispenser -I just don't use them on shabbos

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Modern Refrigerators and "Shabbos Mode"
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 09:07:43 AM »
while on this topic can one untwist the bulb in the fridge and open and close the door while the button being pressed in and out every time you open the fridge?
 Meaning does the button in the fridge which gets pressed in when you shut the door and unpressed when you open the door, does the button do anything else aside for flipping the switch on for the bulb and off?
 Or is there a problem letting the current of the electricity flow when opening the door to the fridge or freezer?
  I've seen many ppl who unscrewed their bulbs before shabbos instead of buying the shabbos velcro to cover the switch?
I Just got a Whirlpool french door fridge and the bulb was out, I figured well if there's No bulb there's no problem, Yesterday I Called the appliance store asked them how to put on shabbos mode, they instructed me to tape down the two tabs in fridge and tab in freezer that detect when the door opens/closes, I opened the doors and pressed the tabs with my hands and surprisingly I noticed besides all the behind the scene issues the digital display that shows the fridge/freezer temperature goes off only when both doors are closed....... and goes on when any door is opened.
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