Author Topic: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate  (Read 5189 times)

Offline cmey

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2018, 02:31:43 AM »
"Deserve to die", I will leave that up to everyone's personal view. By our laws the answer would be no. Now you want to put him on trial and give him the death penalty if convicted, go for it.

If you are asking a legal opinion you are 100% correct “By our laws” you would need a trial and due process. If you are defining “Deserve to die” by a moral standard, that is very different. Some would say allowing OBL to live when the result would be many innocent people dying would actually be morally reprehensible and unjustifiable.

Offline Proisrael

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2018, 07:16:05 AM »
The world is a better place with him silent. Whether he deserved to die in the first place is up to Saudia rules. He was on Saudia land. If they deemed him a traitor and made the judgement there then its fine.

Offline zh cohen

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The media are upset about what happened to one of their own. Unsurprising. We see the same here all the time.

Not surprising at all to me, but they constantly insist that their personal baises don't affect their reporting.

Offline aygart

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2018, 08:22:29 AM »
Not surprising at all to me, but they constantly insist that their personal baises don't affect their reporting.
I think it has been pretty clear that this has never been my opinion.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2018, 08:24:08 AM »
Innocent until proven guilty simply  states that by no means should anyone have pulled the trigger. However now that he is dead, innocent until guilty kind of goes the other way. it sounds like you would have no problem as judge and jury convicting his killers of the murder of an innocent man. Is that so clear cut or would you apply the innocent until proven guilty standard to them as well? I’m not saying innocent. I’m saying that perhaps there is reasonable doubt. ( I’m not talking about the method used, or the need to uphold international laws and norms. I’m talking about the morality of his having been killed to the degree that his incitement of others had the potential to cause the loss of innocent lives.)

In any case, since when has the standard of guilty beyond reasonable doubt ever been applied to nations eliminating what they claim are credible threats to their sovereignty or the security of their citizens? That is never the standard used. Not by Israel. Not by Russia. Not by any other sovereign nation in the hundreds of “elimination of threats” that take place each year. Would you hold the IDF to the standard of innocent until proven guilty when there is a hamas operative that appears to be planning a terrorist attack on civilians?
Nothing you wrote has been anything more than standard pro Palestinian stupidity.if this are your standards to kill someone you can justify genocide.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2018, 08:26:52 AM »
I think it has been pretty clear that this has never been my opinion.

Right.

Can we agree to agree?

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Not surprising at all to me, but they constantly insist that their personal baises don't affect their reporting.
Sort of like the posts in this thread?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline cmey

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2018, 09:00:05 AM »
Nothing you wrote has been anything more than standard pro Palestinian stupidity.if this are your standards to kill someone you can justify genocide.

If you are positing that his writings as an influential voice in the muslim world did not/will not result in the murder of innocent civilians I agree with you that he did not deserve to be killed. If they did have that potential I disagree with you. I’m not convinced either way therefore I think it’s not clear whether he did or did not deserve to be killed.

Offline cmey

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2018, 09:16:04 AM »
The world is a better place with him silent. Whether he deserved to die in the first place is up to Saudia rules. He was on Saudia land. If they deemed him a traitor and made the judgement there then its fine.

????
I could not disagree with you more.
Do you mean that the embassy is considered Saudi land? He was on Turkish soil until the Saudi’s lured him to his death. Did China have the right to lure the head of Interpol to the mainland so they could do away with him, since he ended up on their soil? I think others have a right to judge the Saudi actions based on their own moral standards, not Saudi rules.

Regardless of where it took place the world has a right to pass judgement on a nations actions.The world can condemn North Korea for putting millions of their own in concentration camps and starving and beating them even though it’s on North Korean land. The world can condemn China for forcing millions of Uighurs into “re-education camps” despite their taking place on Chinese soil. The same goes for the dozens of other countries and regimes that starve, beat, imprison, and murder various segments of their populations. Just because it takes place on your land doesn’t give you a moral pass.

The fact that the world turns a blind eye to all these ongoing atrocities , but is enraged at selective situations such as this one (as well as the “oppression of the Palestinian people” ) is a testament to world hypocrisy, political expediency trumping morality,  and might makes right.....

(As an aside, this is why the UN will never be an effective organization. It is not that it is a failure as an organization, just that it will always be a reflection of the behavior and moral compass of the nations that it is comprised of, and so it will always manifest the hypocrisy and lack of moral standards that are endemic to the counties in its membership.)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 10:05:20 AM by cmey »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2018, 09:26:54 AM »
Don't need a 15 person team and a bone cutter to kidnap someone.
Imho he was clearly an agent of some side and they needed to extract vital Intel from him. This is how it is done.

Either way, it's just one dead guy. Don't understand why the world has to care. I'm sure people die in SA every day like this.

Offline aygart

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2018, 10:33:21 AM »


Imho he was clearly an agent of some side and they needed to extract vital Intel from him. This is how it is done.

Either way, it's just one dead guy. Don't understand why the world has to care. I'm sure people die in SA every day like this.



The media are upset about what happened to one of their own. Unsurprising. We see the same here all the time.


You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2018, 10:34:30 AM »
If you are positing that his writings as an influential voice in the muslim world did not/will not result in the murder of innocent civilians I agree with you that he did not deserve to be killed. If they did have that potential I disagree with you. I’m not convinced either way therefore I think it’s not clear whether he did or did not deserve to be killed.
Do you think that there will be less violence now that he is dead?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2018, 10:48:58 AM »
I think it’s not clear whether he did or did not deserve to be killed.
The Saudis killed one of their own citizens. This happens everyday in Iran, in China, etc. Turkey has thousands in jail because they expressed disagreement with their Sultan. Where is the outrage?
It is this selective outrage that seems a bit strange.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2018, 10:51:57 AM »
How about we start a list of who deserves to die. Murdered and cut up into pieces.
I will start. What about the traitor Jonathan Pollard? Should he have been murdered and cut up into pieces while on American soil?
Hopefully you get the point!!!
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline Emkay

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi Murdered At Saudi Consulate
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2018, 12:03:38 PM »
How about we start a list of who deserves to die. Murdered and cut up into pieces.
I will start. What about the traitor Jonathan Pollard? Should he have been murdered and cut up into pieces while on American soil?
Hopefully you get the point!!!
Strawmanning. SOP.