Have We Lost Our Appreciation for living in and visiting Eretz Yisroel

[Moshe Green]

Sometimes we can fool ourselves into thinking that this is a good place to discuss hashkafa. We can even invest in a thought out post to discuss something. Then somebody comes along and diverts the whole conversation to a fourth grade level mudsling.

You got that right...

[Traveler718]

I once read that a Yerushalmi asked Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach if he has to tear kriah when going to the Kosel for the first time in more than 30 days, since he heard that there are opinions that being surrounded by the churban everywhere you look exempts one from having to tear kriah.

Rav Shlomo Zalman responded that living in Yerushalayim and not going to the Kosel monthly itself is grounds to tear kriah!

[Definitions2]

What makes a farm in EY better for you than elsewhere?
Are you ready to get really familiar with all the מצוות התליות בארץ involved with owning a farm?

Because it's EY.

Absolutely. It would be a privilege. To clarify the farm wouldn't be for a primary income.

[yfr bachur]

i am REFFERING to young couples getting married in past few years and yes FACT out of 400 girls in wolf seminary in bnei brak 175 went to hi tech course 60 accounting or so and not even one ganenet. It was first time ever that there are no ganenets.
You are a diiferent age bracket and those who move out of yerushalaim bnei brak are those who dont work in offices generally as there aren't many jobs in periphery

I am aware of all you stated, and still maintain that you are generalising from limited data.
I know numerous native israeli couples 25,26 and under that do not fit the financial and societal profile you wrote about.
"Frumy" girls from KS, JLM... (I happen not to have much connection to BB). Boys who went to BME, Yad Halevi... or like yeshivos.
I know many people living in Neve Yaakov, Achisamach, KS... I guess I may also be generalising from the people I am connected with - but I'm sure theres place for the disscusion of what is the "average" young chareidi couple...

@YesThatsMe sorry for triggering you. I could have written the name of any yeshiva, I just choose the one closest to Geula  (never learned there or any related yeshiva, I could count on the fingers of one hand freinds who learned there particularly, lav davka agree on the mehalach of boys going there anyway... and my reference was meant to be the Talmidei Chachamim there - like RAYS and his sons - not the young talmidim from the US).

@HudZ It's not specificaly you or what you wrote that "triggered" and even then I was refering mostly to the first part of my post. As I posted earlier, I am very aware of the difficulties that are caused by the travel disruptions. My shver really truely may not make it back to his home to make the seder (Not booked on ELAL). My chavrusa will likely need to prepare for pesach in under a week - with a house of lively kids, a pregnant wife, and he missed ordering from all the at or close to cost and/or subsidised sales/chalukas because he was supposed to be flying to his divorced MIL to make the seder for her and her unmarried children (Not booked on ELAL).
With that said, and not trying to criticise anyone in particular or be patronising - Eretz Yisroel niknis beyisurim. This just may be the Yesurim of the people who "havent seen their family in many months"... Making Pesach. In EY. Being independant adults. Leading a seder! (The first seder I led was during corona - and it was AMAZING! I prepared the hagada with a chavrusa - on the phone, of course  and it just felt so good to be able to prepare and give over the messages of emunah and bitachin and yad hashem and hasgacha pratism and mida kneged mida and... in the hagada and since then my wife refuses to go to any other seder! even to her parents who live in walking distance from us).
Most people who "haven't seen their family in many months" likely can see them every day. On Zoom or other like apps. What a bracha! Once "not seeing" meant literaly not seeing. (I know it's not the same as in person...)

[mevinyavin]

Ok... Understood.

I hope I didn't offend you in any way. But that's not how I understood what you said (yfr) at first, as I was just replying to someone who said it's ironic to say 'stuck in Israel'. And I was just saying that there are many ppl who didn't see their family in months, since if their going in for Pesach, they most probably went in for Sukkos as well...

Not at all offended. I am happy for people who are better off provided they don't make assumptions that everyone else can spend like them.
Though while we are at it, the statement, "if their going in for Pesach, they most probably went in for Sukkos as well..." is untrue for anyone in my circles. Where I live, the better-off go once a year, and everyone else averages every three years. (To be fair, the former may only leave once a year for ideological reasons and not for financial reasons, though I heard once person comment that it takes a year to forget how hard it was to travel with the kids last time.)

[HudZ]

Not at all offended. I am happy for people who are better off provided they don't make assumptions that everyone else can spend like them.
Though while we are at it, the statement, "if their going in for Pesach, they most probably went in for Sukkos as well..." is untrue for anyone in my circles. Where I live, the better-off go once a year, and everyone else averages every three years. (To be fair, the former may only leave once a year for ideological reasons and not for financial reasons, though I heard once person comment that it takes a year to forget how hard it was to travel with the kids last time.)

Beracha V'Hatzlacha. Chag Kosher V'Sameach.
May we all be together in EY B'Karov.

[Sam Finkelstein]

Not sure who said it after moving to EY, but it resonates a lot: The thing we miss the most about living in chu'l is the longing for EY!

Having learned (single) in E"Y for 1.5 years about 5 years ago, I remember how hard it was to live there, and how nice it was to go back to the US every Bein Hazmanim (thanks to miles, of course). It was also hard to come back after a few weeks in "luxurious" America. Fun fact: the biggest creature comfort I missed was carpeting, and that's why today I insist on having carpet in my bedroom 

I was able to visit twice in the past 2 years, once with my family for a week and another time in-and-out for a Simcha, and I continue feel an intense longing to return. However, it's not easy - practically and financially - and I don't know when the next time is.

But at least I have this in Chu"l.

[HudZ]

But at least I have this in Chu"l.

The yearning? DDF?

[elazarb]

The yearning? DDF?

think he means the carpet

[Sam Finkelstein]

The yearning? DDF?

The yearning.

think he means the carpet

That too 

[DaasTora]

If it now takes efforts by ehrilce Yidden like R' Meilich Biderman or Naftali Kempe to bring back some Ta'am in that, it means that we still yearn for it, but the fault is not ours.

Seriously? You put them together in on sentence? כבוד התורה!

[Definitions2]

Seriously? You put them together in on sentence? כבוד התורה!

That's exactly the point. I don't see that as an issue.

[LongTimeLurker]

1. Can we stop with the zionists did this and the zionists did that. Enough already.
2. to the point of OP (yfr bachur): The world has changed tremendously in the last 20 years. I've been in Israel for a long time. Israel has become much wealthier. It became much more accessible. Air Travel has made the world smaller. 30 years ago no one was flying from Modiin to NJ to work during the week and come home for the weekend, now it's commonplace (or was, until Covid and then the war). That impacts everyone and how we treat things.
3. When you come from abroad, of course you want to go to the kotel, kever rahel, kivrei tzadikim.. You're off your daily routine and that's what you want to do. When you live here, you have to feed your family, pay your bills, go to the doctor.. Unless you deliberately make time for it, it doesn't happen.

Anyway I'm just saying what you're feeling/expressing is fairly normal, we get used to things.

Hag Kasher VSameach to all

[HudZ]

Anyway I'm just saying what you're feeling/expressing is fairly normal, we get used to things.

We know it's a normal feeling. That's how Hashem made us, we can adapt to a situation quite quickly. It doesn't mean it's a good thing or the right thing.

After the war started, we (myself at least) were all a little shaken up.
How long did that last? A week? 2 Weeks?
Is it normal? Yes.
Should it be that way? No.

It's up to us, to keep important things in mind and keep invigorating it within ourselves.