Author Topic: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul Targeting Jews, 11 Dead  (Read 30288 times)

Offline Emgee

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #140 on: October 29, 2018, 01:58:09 PM »
Guys this is not about judging other people, this is about everyone doing their own sole searching and see what they can improve on. Im pretty sure that any real dass Torah would be against shulls Facilitating any gay activity, period. And to the question if they deserved to die, its very ignorant for anyone to try to figure out exactly what gods intentions are, the Talmus says that sometimes small children die for the sins of Nivel pe of others, and for JJ to say something like "i don't think god woke up yesterday to do this or that is as close to kfira as it gets".


Offline Redbull3

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #141 on: October 29, 2018, 01:59:26 PM »
Guys this is not about judging other people, this is about everyone doing their own sole searching and see what they can improve on. Im pretty sure that any real dass Torah would be against shulls Facilitating any gay activity, period. And to the question if they deserved to die, its very ignorant for anyone to try to figure out exactly what gods intentions are, the Talmus says that sometimes small children die for the sins of Nivel pe od others, and for JJ to say something like "i don't think god woke up yesterday to do this or that is as close to kfira as it gets".
Kfira because you are focusing on the "wake up" part of his post? come on.

Offline Emgee

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #142 on: October 29, 2018, 02:03:18 PM »
Kfira because you are focusing on the "wake up" part of his post? come on.
Absolutely not. The kfira part goes to him trying to explain if god killed them because they attended a gay bris or not. Maybe yes maybe no.

Lets quote without the "Woke up" and its still wrong. In fact the Gemara says otherwise, sometimes innocent people die for the Sin of others.

" I don't think my G-d  on shabbos day  said. Ok a gay bris is not good, I will kill a 97 year old woman and 10 others, so people know it's not ok.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:57:36 PM by Emgee »

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #143 on: October 29, 2018, 02:06:39 PM »
Abseltly not. The kfira part goes to him trying to explain if god killed them because they attended a gay bris or not. Maybe yes maybe no.
If acting like we know definitively is the kfira (which I'm not sure JJ did because he said "I don't think" not "I definitely know it was not the case" but he can speak for himself), then it's just as much kfira to say it is definitely connected as it is to say it is definitely not connected. Agree?

Offline Emgee

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #144 on: October 29, 2018, 02:10:12 PM »
If acting like we know definitively is the kfira (which I'm not sure JJ did because he said "I don't think" not "I definitely know it was not the case" but he can speak for himself), then it's just as much kfira to say it is definitely connected as it is to say it is definitely not connected. Agree?
Its irreverent if its connected or not. When something bad happens god wants us to get the message and become better people. And facilitating gay couples brisim or weddings sure does not make us better, among other sins of course.

Look at my first post i started of by saying this is not about judging people. Its just as ignorant to say that god did this or that because of this sin or that one as saying he DID NOT do it bacause of this or that.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:53:04 PM by Emgee »

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #145 on: October 29, 2018, 02:14:20 PM »
Its irreverent if its connected or not. When something bad happens god wants us to get the message and become better people. And facilitating gay couples brisim or weddings sure does make us better, among other things of course.

Look at my first post i started of by saying this is not about judging people. Its just as ignorant to say that god did this or that because of this sin or that one as saying he DID NOT do it bacause of this or that.
You say it’s irrelevant if it’s connected but then you go ahead and connect. And you call someone a kofer for thinking it’s not connected.
If i have it twisted please correct me.

Offline zale

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #146 on: October 29, 2018, 02:16:03 PM »
Its irreverent if its connected or not. When something bad happens god wants us to get the message and become better people. And facilitating gay couples brisim or weddings sure does make us better, among other things of course.

The man came in and said "all Jews must die". That's the message. He picked that shul because it probably was the most notable one in the area. (I don't live there, but the shul looks like a big building). He could have easily chosen another shul in the area.

Islamic terrorists chose the Nariman house in Mumbai because it was the only notable Jewish center there. What did they do wrong? What message was G-D sending then?

What happened this Shabbos could have happened in a Chabad or other Orthodox shul G-D forbid. We have no right to cast judgment.

Offline Yef

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #147 on: October 29, 2018, 02:16:49 PM »
Would like to point out that this happened on shabbos morning when we read the overturning of sedom. It is incumbent on us to learn lessons from everything. That is why things happen. The lesson s definitely not that we should arm up. It could be these things are becoming too normal and it is even affecting the Frum community. We must remember what Hashem wants from us. What this Nazi did was evil, what those 2 men do is also evil.

Offline Emgee

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #148 on: October 29, 2018, 02:18:09 PM »
You say it’s irrelevant if it’s connected but then you go ahead and connect. And you call someone a kofer for thinking it’s not connected.
If i have it twisted please correct me.
Im saying facilitating gays is wrong ans so is every other sin.

Never did i say what the reason they died.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #149 on: October 29, 2018, 02:18:49 PM »
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline Dan

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #150 on: October 29, 2018, 02:20:34 PM »
He picked that shul because it probably was the most notable one in the area.
Not even close.
The HIAS Refugee Shabbos was held there.

People need to differentiate between being Gds spokesman for why this happened/assigning blame and for taking life lessons about how we can be better Jews. And they need to GTHO of this thread, have a little respect for the dead and mourning.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #151 on: October 29, 2018, 02:20:47 PM »
@Emgee You are literally saying what I said (to some points anyway), and misreading what I wrote. Please look at the context.

Someone said it's super obvious why Hashem did this, and I said I don't think I understand the reason one person is murdered vs another. And I said we should all learn from it. So... Ya, please use context next time you quote me. Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:24:17 PM by jj1000 »
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Offline gingyguy

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #152 on: October 29, 2018, 02:21:01 PM »
its times like this i wish i were a mod
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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #153 on: October 29, 2018, 02:23:12 PM »
its times like this i wish i were a mod
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Offline Emgee

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #154 on: October 29, 2018, 02:23:52 PM »
The man came in and said "all Jews must die". That's the message. He picked that shul because it probably was the most notable one in the area. (I don't live there, but the shul looks like a big building). He could have easily chosen another shul in the area.

Islamic terrorists chose the Nariman house in Mumbai because it was the only notable Jewish center there. What did they do wrong? What message was G-D sending then?

What happened this Shabbos could have happened in a Chabad or other Orthodox shul G-D forbid. We have no right to cast judgment.
Your almost making my point, i said we have no authority to say why god did this, but we defiantly have an obligation to check ourselfs after any tragedy and think how can we become better Jews overall.

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #155 on: October 29, 2018, 02:25:20 PM »
If you keep all the good deals coming, you never know what doors it can open for you ;)
well you gave one of my hts to @Davidthebest and i still didnt get it back..... that hurts! i mean he doesnt even need it!!
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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #156 on: October 29, 2018, 02:26:15 PM »
well you gave one of my hts to @Davidthebest and i still didnt get it back..... that hurts! i mean he doesnt even need it!!
Dan runs the reconsideration department for HT's here https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=24150.0
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Offline Davidthebest

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #158 on: October 29, 2018, 02:30:38 PM »
Not even close.
The HIAS Refugee Shabbos was held there.

People need to differentiate between being Gds spokesman for why this happened/assigning blame and for taking life lessons about how we can be better Jews. And they need to GTHO of this thread, have a little respect for the dead and mourning.
well you gave one of my hts to @Davidthebest and i still didnt get it back..... that hurts! i mean he doesnt even need it!!
Which HT are you referring to?

Offline Emgee

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #159 on: October 29, 2018, 02:30:42 PM »
@Emgee You are literally saying what I said (to some points anyway), and misreading what I wrote. Please look at the context.

Someone said it's super obvious why Hashem did this, and I said I don't think I understand the reason one person is murdered vs another. And I said we should all learn from it. So... Ya, please use context next time you quote me. Thanks.
Big difference, between saying "i don't think he did it because of....."  and saying "i don't think i understand the reason". But thanks for clearing that up, i stand corrected..