Author Topic: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul Targeting Jews, 11 Dead  (Read 30276 times)

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2018, 11:29:46 AM »
I have kabalah from my rabeim that מין is an acronym for a very specific group although it is sometimes used as a borrowed term to refer to others.
I guess I was using the borrowed term, and the rambam certainly describes people like them in the same category when it comes to אבילות
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #81 on: October 29, 2018, 11:30:47 AM »
You're a homophobe if you think acting on homosexuality is worse than violating other d'orysas, like stealing etc

Offline cmey

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2018, 11:30:59 AM »
I have kabalah from my rabeim that מין is an acronym for a very specific group although it is sometimes used as a borrowed term to refer to others.

מתלמידי seems rather forced. Should have been תלמידי.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2018, 11:31:37 AM »
We say 6 million kedoshim died in the holocaust. Most were not observant. They were targeted because they were jews. Hence they died Al Kiddush Hashem.....
It certainly is a tragedy, and he targeted Jews.
But they aren't the jew I am proud of.
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2018, 11:31:40 AM »
I donteither believe that God "woke up and..." but seeing דין וחשבון before our eyes for כופרים is what strengthens our אמונה. I encourage you to look at הלכת אבילות when it comes to such people.
This is getting into a side debate, I have no interest in. I said my piece. Peace out.

If someone like @ExGingi or @Freddie want to explain why they aren't כופרים, and those halachas wouldn't apply they can, but I find plenty of emunah from the good in the world, no need to find it in the murders of others.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2018, 11:33:06 AM »
You're a homophobe if you think acting on homosexuality is worse than violating other d'orysas, like stealing etc
Which groups of Jews permits stealing? Aside from the fact that that isn't called תועבה which is a category of its own
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #86 on: October 29, 2018, 11:33:39 AM »
WOW did this take a nasty turn.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shapsam

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2018, 11:35:24 AM »
We say 6 million kedoshim died in the holocaust. Most were not observant. They were targeted because they were jews. Hence they died Al Kiddush Hashem.....
Of course they died al kiddush hashem but a lot of gedolim still said the reasons why there was a holocaust.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2018, 11:37:05 AM »
Which groups of Jews permits stealing? Aside from the fact that that isn't called תועבה which is a category of its own
Plenty of imperfect jews out there violating all sorts of things. Not our place to get into the mind of god and start guessing who died because of what. Judge the man in the mirror, not the window

Offline cmey

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2018, 11:37:56 AM »
It certainly is a tragedy, and he targeted Jews.
But they aren't the jew I am proud of.

That is not the point. Jews died Al Kiddush Hashem. Unless you go around saying 1.4 million kedoshim died in the holocaust. No one goes around categorizing those who died in the holocaust as more or less worthy Jews in the context of the tragedy. If you want to debate the religious character of the Jews on europe as a separate subject go for it. It doesn’t belong in a discussion of the tragedy. Same here.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #90 on: October 29, 2018, 11:38:18 AM »
Plenty of imperfect jews out there violating all sorts of things. Not our place to get into the mind of god and start guessing who died because of what. Judge the man in the mirror, not the window
It's not a matter of judgement, do they have דיני אבילות or not?
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Offline doodle

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #91 on: October 29, 2018, 11:39:19 AM »
Blessed is the True God who punished the gay sinners,and their supporters. It's tragic , and it inspires awe.
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Offline yelped

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #92 on: October 29, 2018, 11:39:36 AM »
Of course they died al kiddush hashem but a lot of gedolim still said the reasons why there was a holocaust.
And a lot of gedolim disagreed with those gedolim.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #93 on: October 29, 2018, 11:40:09 AM »
That is not the point. Jews died Al Kiddush Hashem. Unless you go around saying 1.4 million kedoshim died in the holocaust. No one goes around categorizing those who died in the holocaust as more or less worthy Jews in the context of the tragedy. If you want to debate the religious character of the Jews on europe as a separate subject go for it. It doesn’t belong in a discussion of the tragedy. Same here.
It's the same thing, the attack against Jews for being Jews is the same, but are they people I unite with? No
 Are they people who were good people undeserving of bad? No
Again, as Jews were we attacked? Yes
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #94 on: October 29, 2018, 11:40:38 AM »
It's not a matter of judgement, do they have דיני אבילות or not?
You're totally judging them. You're questioning what the rape victim wore.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2018, 11:41:20 AM »
We question our actions then as well.

The key word here is "our". We think about what we did wrong, not what the other guy did.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2018, 11:42:31 AM »
Are they people who were good people undeserving of bad? No

So their "crime" was attending a gay couple's kid's bris. If you knew a fellow jew let's say stole, you would say no one is allowed to go to his son's bris or else they "deserve bad?"

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2018, 11:42:39 AM »
You're totally judging them. You're questioning what the rape victim wore.
They were wrong alive just as they are wrong dead
The key word here is "our". We think about what we did wrong, not what the other guy did.
I don't associate myself with them.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline cmey

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2018, 11:43:09 AM »
Of course they died al kiddush hashem but a lot of gedolim still said the reasons why there was a holocaust.

And chazal spelled out in exacting detail  why the churban and resulting murder of millions of Jews happened. Yet we sit and cry and mourn....

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2018, 11:43:23 AM »
So their "crime" was attending a gay couple's kid's bris. If you knew a fellow jew let's say stole, you would say no one is allowed to go to his son's bris or else they "deserve bad?"
It's the community they are a part of, as well as supporting the wrongdoing.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch