Author Topic: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul Targeting Jews, 11 Dead  (Read 14284 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2018, 12:50:32 PM »
To answer your question correctly I need to make use of Jewish sources, primarily the Talmud. But you said you don't care about the opinion of the Torah, so what good will it do?
All I am asking is your view. If you want to base it on your religious beliefs that is fine but it is still your personal belief. This isn't that difficult of a question. Let me show you how easy it is. My belief is they do not deserve to die. Now your turn.  :)
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #121 on: October 29, 2018, 12:52:05 PM »
Somehow these incidents lead everyone to show off their ignorance.
You should try and correct that ignorance so those that don't understand Judaism do not get the wrong impression.
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Offline WiddleAvi

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #122 on: October 29, 2018, 12:54:44 PM »
Doesn't take an idiot to realize why God chose them as the targets.

It saddens me that there are <language redacted by mods>tards like you who feel this way and have no shame in posting such hatred in a public forum.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 12:56:06 PM by jj1000 »

Offline EJB

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #123 on: October 29, 2018, 12:56:28 PM »
Dan, please close this thread. Itís insane how much lashon harah and insensitivity is being spewed, and I donít think itís fruitful at all.

Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #124 on: October 29, 2018, 12:58:59 PM »
I think thread is worse than the gun control threads. Hard to do

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #125 on: October 29, 2018, 01:00:07 PM »
I think thread is worse than the gun control threads. Hard to do
It is worse than the political thread!!!
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Offline cmey

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #126 on: October 29, 2018, 01:08:35 PM »
Agree. Delete thread.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #127 on: October 29, 2018, 01:09:14 PM »
All I am asking is your view. If you want to base it on your religious beliefs that is fine but it is still your personal belief. This isn't that difficult of a question. Let me show you how easy it is. My belief is they do not deserve to die. Now your turn.  :)

Fair enough. My personal belief is that you aren't authentically religious, because if you were you wouldn't marginalize the view of the Torah. That said, I'm happy to respond. But to be clear, your question was whether or not homosexuals deserve to die. It was not about the story in Pittsburgh.

1) Sanhedrin is not in force today so a Bes Din may not put anyone to death, including murderers. So, no homosexuals may not be stoned in our times. 2) In the times of the Sanhedrin [and when Moshiach reinstates Sanhedrin], they stoned Homosexuals. It is a Biblical command: If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13) 3) The Talmud states that while today we do not mete out corporal punishments, G-d does intervene. He sees to it that people get what they deserve. So do homosexuals deserve to die? Yes. Can we do anything about it today? No. Does G-d intervene? That Talmud says yes.
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Offline Shkop

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #128 on: October 29, 2018, 01:10:08 PM »
Dan, please close this thread. Itís insane how much lashon harah and insensitivity is being spewed, and I donít think itís fruitful at all.

Specifically what lashon harah are you referring to?
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #129 on: October 29, 2018, 01:12:12 PM »
Not stating an opinion, but just pointing out, that just because you believe that someone was being punished, that doesn't necessarily mean that you dislike that person or think that they sinned in a worse manner than someone else, or deserved it more than anyone else. However, even if you are from those who believe that, the tachlis is to take it as mussar to yourself, not just point out that the person did something wrong and therefore you don't have to learn from it.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #130 on: October 29, 2018, 01:14:26 PM »
Fair enough. My personal belief is that you aren't authentically religious, because if you were you wouldn't marginalize the view of the Torah. That said, I'm happy to respond. But to be clear, your question was whether or not homosexuals deserve to die. It was not about the story in Pittsburgh.

1) Sanhedrin is not in force today so a Bes Din may not put anyone to death, including murderers. So, no homosexuals may not be stoned in our times. 2) In the times of the Sanhedrin [and when Moshiach reinstates Sanhedrin], they stoned Homosexuals. It is a Biblical command: If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13) 3) The Talmud states that while today we do not mete out corporal punishments, G-d does intervene. He sees to it that people get what they deserve. So do homosexuals deserve to die? Yes. Can we do anything about it today? No. Does G-d intervene? That Talmud says yes.
Thank you for your honest answer.
1- I am not Jewish.
2 - I am religous.
3 - I do not marginalize others religion.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #131 on: October 29, 2018, 01:17:24 PM »
Thank you for your honest answer.
1- I am not Jewish.
2 - I am religous.
3 - I do not marginlize others religion.
In addition I would say that he was talking about whether they should be killed, ie, based on Torah law. You seemed to have been asking whether he believes they deserve to be killed, to which the answer would be that IF the Torah says they should, than they deserve it, although we may not understand why what they did was so terrible that it should deserve such a punishment

Offline EJB

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #132 on: October 29, 2018, 01:21:23 PM »
Specifically what lashon harah are you referring to?
For one, the implication that the baalei simcha engaged in homosexual relations. We have no idea. Among others, but I really donít think this conversation is helpful in any regard.

Iím happy that many major rabbonin and orthodox organizations have made inclusive as opposed to divisive statements so far.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2018, 01:23:27 PM »
Thank you for your honest answer.
1- I am not Jewish.
2 - I am religous.
3 - I do not marginalize others religion.

OK, now things make more sense. But considering that you go by Chaim Moskowitz, which is as Jewish as it gets, I wouldn't have figured.
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Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #134 on: October 29, 2018, 01:24:05 PM »
OK, now things make more sense. But considering that you go by Chaim Moskowitz, which is as Jewish as it gets, I wouldn't have figured.

He goes by many names  ;)

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #135 on: October 29, 2018, 01:36:56 PM »
OK, now things make more sense. But considering that you go by Chaim Moskowitz, which is as Jewish as it gets, I wouldn't have figured.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #136 on: October 29, 2018, 01:37:30 PM »
He goes by many names  ;)
Now this thread needs to be deleted!!!  :)
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Shooting In Pittsburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #137 on: October 29, 2018, 01:38:32 PM »
Now this thread needs to be deleted!!!  :)
+100
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Offline cmey

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #138 on: October 29, 2018, 01:53:15 PM »
He goes by many names  ;)

Lama zeh tishíal lishmi?

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Shooting In Pitssburgh Shul (Targeted against Jews), 11 Dead
« Reply #139 on: October 29, 2018, 01:54:49 PM »
OK, now things make more sense. But considering that you go by Chaim Moskowitz, which is as Jewish as it gets, I wouldn't have figured.
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