Author Topic: Joining Kosherica cruise minyan (and what happened in Antarctica)  (Read 4135 times)

Offline cmey

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2018, 10:30:41 AM »
Not sure what you misunderstood here.
There were other Jews on our cruise and we invited them to Shabbos meals, kosher food, etc.

The problem would be if there were Jews who specifically booked passage on the cruise while paying 5 figures just to take advantage of their services without paying the small premium for those services.

That didn't happen, but it could have been quite awkward. In the end we had an amazing array of Jews from all walks of life and it was truly special.

Have to side with Dan on this one. It’s one thing to pull Jews into a minyan. It’s another for someone to intentionally piggyback on someone else’s efforts. You see this attitude all the time- “my shtender doesn’t cost the yeshiva anything” “it doesn’t cost the shul a dime for me to join them on shabbosim- they have to pay utilities anyway” etc. Thos attitude is wrong on so many levels, it is the opposite of the way frum Jews should relate to the community and should never be encouraged. Perhaps it is better that they don’t have access to a minyan than to be an enabler to their improper attitude....

Offline lyla

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2018, 12:51:59 PM »
Not sure what you misunderstood here.
There were other Jews on our cruise and we invited them to Shabbos meals, kosher food, etc.

The problem would be if there were Jews who specifically booked passage on the cruise while paying 5 figures just to take advantage of their services without paying the small premium for those services.

That didn't happen, but it could have been quite awkward. In the end we had an amazing array of Jews from all walks of life and it was truly special.
What I was referring to were the comments that you made on the older "kosherica" thread. I'm glad you let other Jews join you on your cruise but it doesn't take away what you had stated on the other thread. A Jew is a Jew and, in my opinion, should be welcomed to join a minyan whether they paid for a program or not. Everyone is entitled to voice their own opinion. I'm glad that you voiced yours but I was taken aback when I read it. That's all. I will return to blend into the woodwork!

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2018, 12:59:23 PM »
What I was referring to were the comments that you made on the older "kosherica" thread. I'm glad you let other Jews join you on your cruise but it doesn't take away what you had stated on the other thread. A Jew is a Jew and, in my opinion, should be welcomed to join a minyan whether they paid for a program or not. Everyone is entitled to voice their own opinion. I'm glad that you voiced yours but I was taken aback when I read it. That's all. I will return to blend into the woodwork!
Please explain exactly what I said that you disagree with.

My beef is with someone who would specifically seek out a kosher cruise in order to utilize their services while avoiding to defray the cost of providing those services on a boat.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline zagguru

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2018, 12:59:34 PM »
Not sure what you misunderstood here.
There were other Jews on our cruise and we invited them to Shabbos meals, kosher food, etc.



They booked the trip without knowing about your program? Did any of them join or pay?

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2018, 01:05:19 PM »
They booked the trip without knowing about your program? Did any of them join or pay?
Nobody did that. In the previous thread I was referring to the theoretical.
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Offline lyla

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #65 on: December 23, 2018, 01:10:26 PM »
Please explain exactly what I said that you disagree with.

"I'd have very mixed feelings.

There are literally thousands of hours of logistical work that went into organizing our small kosher cruise. It would seem to be unfair if someone came along and took advantage of a minyan without helping to defray the cost of making that minyan on a boat. A minyan is a small part of the cost of a kosher program, but it's part of the package and getting a torah onboard and obtaining space onboard is no small feat.

OTOH how do you say no to a fellow Jew wanting to daven with a minyan?

At any rate, this happens at Pesach programs all the time where people either sneak in for minyanim, lectures, and entertainment or they ask if they can attend without being part of the program. I think it reflects poorly on someone who would put himself in that situation."

"You may think you're being a good Jew by sneaking in and davening in said minyan, but I'd posit that you are not. These are businesses offering a minyan to meet their paying clients needs, not community shuls. You are gaming the system at another Jew's expense."

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2018, 01:21:22 PM »
"I'd have very mixed feelings.

There are literally thousands of hours of logistical work that went into organizing our small kosher cruise. It would seem to be unfair if someone came along and took advantage of a minyan without helping to defray the cost of making that minyan on a boat. A minyan is a small part of the cost of a kosher program, but it's part of the package and getting a torah onboard and obtaining space onboard is no small feat.

OTOH how do you say no to a fellow Jew wanting to daven with a minyan?

At any rate, this happens at Pesach programs all the time where people either sneak in for minyanim, lectures, and entertainment or they ask if they can attend without being part of the program. I think it reflects poorly on someone who would put himself in that situation."

"You may think you're being a good Jew by sneaking in and davening in said minyan, but I'd posit that you are not. These are businesses offering a minyan to meet their paying clients needs, not community shuls. You are gaming the system at another Jew's expense."

Just to be clear.
You think that it is OK to specifically book a kosher cruise with the intention of using their services without paying for it?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2018, 01:28:21 PM »
You think that it is OK to specifically book a kosher cruise with the intention of using their services without paying for it?
Can you say "freeloader"?  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline lyla

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2018, 01:29:19 PM »
Just to be clear.
You think that it is OK to specifically book a kosher cruise with the intention of using their services without paying for it?
Why is it ok to think that someone would specifically try to do this? It couldn't be a coincidence? Aren't kosher cruises on regular ships with regular passengers that may or may not be practicing Jews?

Offline luckyluck

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2018, 01:33:57 PM »
Why is it ok to think that someone would specifically try to do this? It couldn't be a coincidence? Aren't kosher cruises on regular ships with regular passengers that may or may not be practicing Jews?

Why is it so hard to understand? Dan talks specifically about not a coincidence but someone who does this on purpose.

Offline lyla

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2018, 01:35:13 PM »
It was never my intention to have this back and forth conversation with you in public. I was going to pm you my feelings after I read the previous thread but wasn't sure you would ever see it since your moniker asks people not to pm you. The only times I have gotten in touch with you privately was when I had something for you.

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2018, 01:35:15 PM »
Why is it ok to think that someone would specifically try to do this? It couldn't be a coincidence? Aren't kosher cruises on regular ships with regular passengers that may or may not be practicing Jews?
As I said in that thread repeatedly, I was specifically referring to someone who booked that cruise intentionally to take advantage of those services, not from random people who happen to be there.

Obviously none of that would apply to random people who happen to be there, who we were happy to take care of.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline lyla

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2018, 01:37:37 PM »
As I said in that thread repeatedly, I was specifically referring to someone who booked that cruise intentionally to take advantage of those services, not from random people who happen to be there.

Obviously none of that would apply to random people who happen to be there, who we were happy to take care of.
Ok. I will leave it at that. Thank you for clarifying.

Offline tzifanya54

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2018, 02:16:20 PM »
It was never my intention to have this back and forth conversation with you in public. I was going to pm you my feelings after I read the previous thread but wasn't sure you would ever see it since your moniker asks people not to pm you. The only times I have gotten in touch with you privately was when I had something for you.
JC how did you stop the people that tried booking this cruise and mooch off you. SF indicated people tried but were unsuccessful, I would imagine there isn’t much you can do to stop them (other than just not allowing them to daven with you).

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2018, 02:26:49 PM »
We didn't do anything to stop them.

We offered a very compelling value (Kosher food, wine, drinks, pre trip hotel, and much more) for a small premium and didn't have any issues.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.