Author Topic: Another massacre! 12 killed in mass shooting at bar in Thousand Oaks, California  (Read 16344 times)

Offline avromie7

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The point is banning HCM has no downside. No downside to banning assault weapons.
Banning anything takes away our liberty, that's not to say nothing should be banned, but there is always a downside to banning something.
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Offline avromie7

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So we have some common sense approaches but we do nothing.
IINM Trump increased access to mental health care for veterans.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline whYME

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The point is banning HCM has no downside. No downside to banning assault weapons.
I feel like we've been through this before.

"assault weapons" / HCM account for a tiny fraction of murders in this country.

Banning them would be a huge hit to the primary reason of the 2A, protecting the citizens from a tyrannical government.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Banning anything takes away our liberty, that's not to say nothing should be banned, but there is always a downside to banning something.
Banning a HCM takes away your liberty? ROFLMAO!!!
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Offline avromie7

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Banning a HCM takes away your liberty? ROFLMAO!!!
Yes! It's not the governments job to decide what we do or don't need. That said, I'm not arguing for anarchy, but anything the government bans should be carefully considered. This applies to anything and everything from guns, to drugs, and even toilet seats.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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but anything the government bans should be carefully considered.
upside - saves lives
downside - will make avromie7 unhappy
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Offline whYME

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Banning a HCM takes away your liberty? ROFLMAO!!!
upside - saves lives
Hmmmm

A. HCMs are completely ineffective, they don't help at all.  ("Banning a HCM takes away your liberty? ROFLMAO!!!")
B. HCMs are effective, they do help. ("upside - saves lives")

Choose one.

Offline avromie7

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upside - saves lives
downside - will make avromie7 unhappy
You said there is no downside, and I said there is. Your response to that is a snarky version of "that downside is insignificant", that still doesn't change the facts that there is a downside.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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B. HCMs are effective, they do help. ("upside - saves lives")
Someone needs reading comprehension 101.  :)
Banning HCM's would save lives.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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You said there is no downside, and I said there is. Your response to that is a snarky version of "that downside is insignificant", that still doesn't change the facts that there is a downside.
It wasn't a snarky remark. It was accurate as I see it. Banning HCM's is not taking away any liberty and yes it would make some unhappy. I don't see making someone unhappy as a downside. Feelings get hurt all the time.
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Offline as2

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It wasn't a snarky remark. It was accurate as I see it. Banning HCM's is not taking away any liberty and yes it would make some unhappy. I don't see making someone unhappy as a downside. Feelings get hurt all the time.
I believe you are incorrect. Me not being able to own a tank, is taking away my liberty, but is done so for obvious reasons, that outweigh said "infringements" on my liberty. While HCMs are a Fer less extreme example, banning them, whether right or wrong would be taking away liberty to some extent. That leaves us with the same question as in the case of the tank, is it a liberty that should be taken away, due to the problems it can/does cause? Obviously you feel the answer is yes, and I for the most part agree.

ETA: If you don't like the tank example, replace it with a less extreme example. I used it to make a point.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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I believe you are incorrect. Me not being able to own a tank, is taking away my liberty, but is done so for obvious reasons, that outweigh said "infringements" on my liberty. While HCMs are a Fer less extreme example, banning them, whether right or wrong would be taking away liberty to some extent. That leaves us with the same question as in the case of the tank, is it a liberty that should be taken away, due to the problems it can/does cause? Obviously you feel the answer is yes, and I for the most part agree.
What is your definition of liberty? I take it to mean a right or privilege.
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Offline as2

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What is your definition of liberty? I take it to mean a right or privilege.
In this context, yes.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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In this context, yes.
OK IMHO owning a HCM is neither a right or privilege.
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Offline as2

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OK IMHO owning a HCM is neither a right or privilege.
Than what is it? If today I can, and tomorrow I cant, something has been taken away.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Than what is it? If today I can, and tomorrow I cant, something has been taken away.
Yes something was taken away but not a liberty.
I can have a slave and yes it can/will be taken away. That doesn't mean a liberty was taken away from me. Having a slave was never a right or privilege.
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Offline as2

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Yes something was taken away but not a liberty.
I can have a slave and yes it can/will be taken away. That doesn't mean a liberty was taken away from me. Having a slave was never a right or privilege.
If you are talking in the current time, than that example doesn't hold up as you are breaking the law by owning a slave. I can do whatever I want, but the law allowing it means it is a right or a privilege typically. Owning a HCM can be 100% legal, and would be illegal if banned. I'll ask again, what is it if it isn't a right or a privilege?
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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II'll ask again, what is it if it isn't a right or a privilege?
Call it anything you want. It is like any other object laying around.
Look at paper straws. They are banning them. Do you have a right to use paper straws?
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Offline avromie7

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If you are talking in the current time, than that example doesn't hold up as you are breaking the law by owning a slave. I can do whatever I want, but the law allowing it means it is a right or a privilege typically. Owning a HCM can be 100% legal, and would be illegal if banned. I'll ask again, what is it if it isn't a right or a privilege?
I would say that by not allowing me to own a slave, you are taking away a right albeit for a very good reason - because it infringes on someone else's right to be free.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Call it anything you want. It is like any other object laying around.
Look at paper straws. They are banning them. Do you have a right to use paper straws?
Yes, you have a right to do whatever you want. There may be legitimate reasons to limit a right, but that doesnt mean it's not taking away a right.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.