Author Topic: Another massacre! 12 killed in mass shooting at bar in Thousand Oaks, California  (Read 16340 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Yes, you have a right to do whatever you want.
Did they teach social studies in the school you went to?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile


Call it anything you want. It is like any other object laying around.
Look at paper straws. They are banning them. Do you have a right to use paper straws?

No, it's not about what I'm calling it, it's about what it is. You still haven't answered what YOU call it. What is this thing, that you feel, can be freely revoked at any time? As far as the straws, I do here in IL, and if I travel to CA, I give up that right. Same would apply for HCM.

I would say that by not allowing me to own a slave, you are taking away a right albeit for a very good reason - because it infringes on someone else's right to be free.

Exactly my point with the tank.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
No, it's not about what I'm calling it, it's about what it is. You still haven't answered what YOU call it. What is this thing, that you feel, can be freely revoked at any time? As far as the straws, I do here in IL, and if I travel to CA, I give up that right. Same would apply for HCM.
So you are saying anything you own, find, touch, ect it is cover by a right? I don't look at it that way. We have a member that thinks he has a "right" to do whatever he wants.
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8188
  • Total likes: 2713
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood


We have a member that thinks he has a "right" to do whatever he wants.
Subject to restrictions. That doesn't mean the restrictions aren't taking away my freedom. I have a right to do as I please as long as it's not infringing on someone else's right.To quote Ben Shapiro "my right to swing my fist ends at your face".

I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
So you are saying anything you own, find, touch, ect it is cover by a right? I don't look at it that way. We have a member that thinks he has a "right" to do whatever he wants.
In a sense, yes. The right to live. It can be revoked with a death sentence. This is irrelevant, the issue at hand is what is it that covers HCM. All I want is your answer, as that is where our disagreement stems from. Is it a right, or a privilege? If it's neither, what is it? What is it, that you can remove the legal ability to own it, and by revoking the legal ability to own it, you don't infringe?
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
I have a right to do as I please as long as it's not infringing on someone else's right.
Do you have a "right" to commit suicide?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
In a sense, yes. The right to live. It can be revoked with a death sentence. This is irrelevant, the issue at hand is what is it that covers HCM. All I want is your answer, as that is where our disagreement stems from. Is it a right, or a privilege? If it's neither, what is it? What is it, that you can remove the legal ability to own it, and by revoking the legal ability to own it, you don't infringe?
Lets make this simple. We ban HCM's. It goes to SCOTUS. They decide that owning a HCM is not covered by the 2A or any other amendment. Did they just take a right away from you?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Lets make this simple. We ban HCM's. It goes to SCOTUS. They decide that owning a HCM is not covered by the 2A or any other amendment. Did they just take a right away from you?
Why can't you answer my question? My belief is not the matter at hand, as I already laid it out. The basis of your argument seems to be faulty, and I'm trying to figure out if I'm misunderstanding something, or if it is indeed faulty. For the fourth time, what allows you to own a HCM that if removed, is not infringing? You often accuse others of not answering questions, and are often right, but in this case it's you.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline EJB

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5409
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Did they teach social studies in the school you went to?
Probably not.

Offline EJB

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5409
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Why can't you answer my question? My belief is not the matter at hand, as I already laid it out. The basis of your argument seems to be faulty, and I'm trying to figure out if I'm misunderstanding something, or if it is indeed faulty. For the fourth time, what allows you to own a HCM that if removed, is not infringing? You often accuse others of not answering questions, and are often right, but in this case it's you.

The second amendment states:
Quote
In order to enable mass murders, the right of the people to own and use high capacity magazines, shall not be infringed

Offline EJB

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5409
  • Total likes: 254
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 15
    • View Profile
Subject to restrictions. That doesn't mean the restrictions aren't taking away my freedom. I have a right to do as I please as long as it's not infringing on someone else's right.To quote Ben Shapiro "my right to swing my fist ends at your face".

Do you have the right to build a bomb for personal use?

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
The second amendment states:
Funny. I'm not pro HCM. I don't believe we need them. This argument has nothing to do with that, because regardless of which side of this argument you're on, you can be pro or anti HCM.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
For the fourth time, what allows you to own a HCM that if removed, is not infringing? You often accuse others of not answering questions, and are often right, but in this case it's you.
I thought I did answer it with the straw example. It has never been decided if you have a right to own a HCM AFAIK. So like any other item we don't know if you have a right to own it until it is decided one way or other. If you never had a right to own it to begin with that right can not be taken away. Not asking if you agree but does that answer the question?
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Probably not.
I guess getting an answer from someone I didn't ask is better than nothing.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
I thought I did answer it with the straw example. It has never been decided if you have a right to own a HCM AFAIK. So like any other item we don't know if you have a right to own it until it is decided one way or other. If you never had a right to own it to begin with that right can not be taken away. Not asking if you agree but does answer the question?
I hear that logic. But by that logic, is default, do what you want until we determine what it is? I think I'm seeing your view now. Kind of like a correction of what should have been, as opposed to having the right or not. I'm not sure I agree, but it's an interesting perspective.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
I hear that logic. But by that logic, is default, do what you want until we determine what it is? I think I'm seeing your view now. Kind of like a correction of what should have been, as opposed to having the right or not. I'm not sure I agree, but it's an interesting perspective.
Did I at least answer your question?  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Did I at least answer your question?  :)
I think so. I just wanted to understand your view, and to me, it wasn't made clear until that post. But that makes me wonder, wouldn't some you are allowed to do, by law, be a right or a privilege, even if the law misinterpreted the constitution?
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 6738
  • Total likes: 1097
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
I think so. I just wanted to understand your view, and to me, it wasn't made clear until that post. But that makes me wonder, wouldn't some you are allowed to do, by law, be a right or a privilege, even if the law misinterpreted the constitution?
I would think by default something is legal. I don't equate "legal" with "right".
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
I would think by default something is legal. I don't equate "legal" with "right".
So that would be the difference between a legal right, and a constitutional right? I would say, that even by that logic, you'd still say some sort of freedom has been revoked, or removed, even if was never supposed to be there in the first place.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8188
  • Total likes: 2713
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood


I thought I did answer it with the straw example. It has never been decided if you have a right to own a HCM AFAIK. So like any other item we don't know if you have a right to own it until it is decided one way or other. If you never had a right to own it to begin with that right can not be taken away. Not asking if you agree but does that answer the question?

IMO your logic is faulty because rights are not granted by the constitution, they human rights that are enshrined in the constitution. The court doesn't decide if you have a right to for example own a HCM, all the court does is decide of that right is enshrined in the constitution.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.