Author Topic: Amazon HQ2  (Read 14529 times)

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2018, 04:26:40 PM »
easier to live in Queens and commute to LIC than Brooklyn

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2018, 04:59:18 PM »
...every direct job generates on average 2.5 indirect jobs...
Source?
...and besides, by amazon picking NYC (and Google announcing last week) itíll inevitably attract more Silicon Valley type activity in the coming years.
First of all, inevitably is way too strong a term. Google already had a strong presence, which they're expanding. How do you even begin to quantify what Amazon coming to NYC will add on top of that? And second of all, Google is the perfect foil to this whole Amazon discussion. Did NYC have to offer Google targeted incentives?

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2018, 05:28:32 PM »
Source?
Hereís one thatís at a 2.5 multiplier, Iíve seen a 4 multiplier report as well, Iíll look for it if youíre really curious, I think the average is 2.5...

https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&filename=0&article=1037&context=up_technicalreports&type=additional

First of all, inevitably is way too strong a term. Google already had a strong presence, which they're expanding. How do you even begin to quantify what Amazon coming to NYC will add on top of that?
Amazons #1 priority by far in this search was talent, theyíve said it multiple times, they had data on 239 American cities and chose NYC, Googles expansion last week wasnít pulled out of a fortune cookie either, they saw talent as well, other tech companies will inevitably try to get a piece of that talent.

And second of all, Google is the perfect foil to this whole Amazon discussion. Did NYC have to offer Google targeted incentives?
No, and that makes Bezos a genius.. but he didnít do it for incentives (other cities offered 3 times the incentives and didnít get it) he did it for talent (and location).

Offline Dan

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2018, 05:29:17 PM »
Of course, a potential condo buyer is going to face two options, pay $1,300/square foot for the luxury of having a short 10 minute commute to work everyday, or pay $900/square foot and commute 40 minutes everyday, two markets, and enough people to fill both.
Amazon jobs aren't going to saturate Brooklyn. They can find places to live in Queens cheap and expensive that will be more convenient.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2018, 05:30:15 PM »
No, and that makes Bezos a genius.. but he didnít do it for incentives (other cities offered 3 times the incentives and didnít get it) he did it for talent (and location).
More likely a weighted combination of the 3.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2018, 05:35:09 PM »
Amazon jobs aren't going to saturate Brooklyn. They can find places to live in Queens cheap and expensive that will be more convenient.
You aware that Brooklyn is a 2 minute drive (over a small bridge) from LIC?

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2018, 05:37:21 PM »
More likely a weighted combination of the 3.
Agree. But not equally weighted.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2018, 05:38:35 PM »
Hereís one thatís at a 2.5 multiplier, Iíve seen a 4 multiplier report as well, Iíll look for it if youíre really curious, I think the average is 2.5...

https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&filename=0&article=1037&context=up_technicalreports&type=additional
There's no actual data in that link that backs up the use of any multiplier.

Amazons #1 priority by far in this search was talent, theyíve said it multiple times, they had data on 239 American cities and chose NYC, Googles expansion last week wasnít pulled out of a fortune cookie either, they saw talent as well, other tech companies will inevitably try to get a piece of that talent.
You realize you're making my point, right? You yourself are saying that the talent is here already, and these companies are moving here to tap into the pool. If other tech companies come as well, that would then be because of the talent, not because of Amazon.
No, and that makes Bezos a genius.. but he didnít do it for incentives (other cities offered 3 times the incentives and didnít get it) he did it for talent (and location).
The discussion is whether NY is making a good deal here or not. If you're saying Bezos/Amazon would've come here anyway, then NY is throwing away taxpayer dollars on this deal.

Offline whYME

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2018, 06:10:43 PM »
No, and that makes Bezos a genius..
Either that or it just makes deBlasio an idiot...

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2018, 06:20:03 PM »
Either that or it just makes deBlasio an idiot...
Cuomo, not deBlasio. The money they're supposedly getting from NYC is from existing programs.

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2018, 06:21:45 PM »
There's no actual data in that link that backs up the use of any multiplier.
That was a recap, hereís the full study:
https://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1037&context=up_technicalreports
And hereís a 7 multiplier study..
https://www.geekwire.com/2015/study-for-every-tech-geek-hired-in-washington-state-another-7-jobs-are-added/
You realize you're making my point, right? You yourself are saying that the talent is here already, and these companies are moving here to tap into the pool. If other tech companies come as well, that would then be because of the talent, not because of Amazon.
Nope, that doesnít make any sense, tech companies attract talent the same way talent attract tech companies, Silicon Valley didnít start out with the talent pool they have today, it builds over time, the talent for NYC to become the next Silicon Valley is not ďhere alreadyĒ, Amazon definitely pushed it a step closer.
The discussion is whether NY is making a good deal here or not. If you're saying Bezos/Amazon would've come here anyway, then NY is throwing away taxpayer dollars on this deal.
Itís not binary, Amazon and NYC made a good deal yesterday.

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2018, 12:27:56 AM »
That new socialist politician is saying it's terrible, so I tend to think it's actually a good thing, but I just wanted to get people's thoughts.
tucker Carlson agrees with her on his show
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2018, 12:50:06 AM »
tucker Carlson agrees with her on his show
There's a segment of the right that hates this kind of stuff (cut taxes instead of spending tax revenue on a specific company) and there's a segment of the left that hates it for other reasons (corporate greed, spend the revenue directly on social good, etc.).

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2018, 12:53:45 AM »
There's a segment of the right that hates this kind of stuff (cut taxes instead of spending tax revenue on a specific company) and there's a segment of the left that hates it for other reasons (corporate greed, spend the revenue directly on social good, etc.).
because heaven forbid should Dís and Rís agree about something for the same reason! ;)
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2018, 01:56:54 AM »
There's a segment of the right that hates this kind of stuff (cut taxes instead of spending tax revenue on a specific company)
Wait a minute now.. isnít tax breaks/incentives a form of cutting taxes?

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2018, 11:33:01 AM »
Wait a minute now.. isnít tax breaks/incentives a form of cutting taxes?
Not if the government is picking the winners and losers. There's also a question of what's more effective in promoting growth.

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/study-american-capitalism/opportunity-cost-corporate-welfare

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2018, 01:58:10 PM »
Not if the government is picking the winners and losers. There's also a question of what's more effective in promoting growth.

https://www.mercatus.org/publications/study-american-capitalism/opportunity-cost-corporate-welfare
Isnít Amazon the one picking winners and losers here? And donít they have the absolute right to do that? They auctioned off a proven successful product (i.e. Seattle, WA level of economic growth) to the highest value bidder, and NY won it.. how is that the ďgovernment picking winners and losersĒ?

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2018, 02:05:35 PM »
Isnít Amazon the one picking winners and losers here? And donít they have the absolute right to do that? They auctioned off a proven successful product (i.e. Seattle, WA level of economic growth) to the highest value bidder, and NY won it.. how is that the ďgovernment picking winners and losersĒ?
Your emoji use is quite puzzling.

Forget the term winners and losers. Is every business getting the same incentives/subsidies? If not, the government is picking and choosing. This is in contrast to something like cutting taxes across the board.

Offline whYME

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2018, 02:06:41 PM »
Isnít Amazon the one picking winners and losers here? And donít they have the absolute right to do that? They auctioned off a proven successful product (i.e. Seattle, WA level of economic growth) to the highest value bidder, and NY won it.. how is that the ďgovernment picking winners and losersĒ?
The point is that the government is giving benefits to select companies (i.e. effectively promoting some over others) hence "picking winners."

If tax breaks etc to businesses are good for the city they should be done across the board.  (tax cuts, not breaks for individuals.)

Offline Ephraimh

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Re: Amazon HQ2
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2018, 02:14:01 PM »
Your emoji use is quite puzzling.

Forget the term winners and losers. Is every business getting the same incentives/subsidies? If not, the government is picking and choosing. This is in contrast to something like cutting taxes across the board.
The point is that the government is giving benefits to select companies (i.e. effectively promoting some over others) hence "picking winners."

If tax breaks etc to businesses are good for the city they should be done across the board.  (tax cuts, not breaks for individuals.)
Shouldnít companies who provide greater value (I.e. billions in development investment/transforming a city, open tech incubators to lure in more tech activity, etc.) receive greater incentives/subsidies?