Amazon HQ2

[Ephraimh]

I'm not disagreeing that it's a lost opportunity for New Yorkers looking for jobs and construction companies etc. I'm talking about extra tax revenue which would have been wasted on nonsense instead of alleviating the current financial burden on taxpayers which is continually increasing. It's not like they would have used the money for the city's aging infrastructure. They would've wasted it on something else and raised taxes again to cover new costs that would inevitably come from new programs.

That’s a twisted concern.
Even the king of small government Ronald Reagan bragged about how lowering taxes, results in a bigger tax base and therefore more tax revenue, he believed in shrinking and abolishing useless spending as well, but broadening a tax base is a good thing, our useless politicians will create new spending programs with or without Amazon, we might as well have new tax revenue to pay for it, and enjoy our 25k new good paying jobs and all the benefits that come with it.

[yitzgar]

That’s a twisted concern.
Even the king of small government Ronald Reagan bragged about how lowering taxes, results in a bigger tax base and therefore more tax revenue, he believed in shrinking and abolishing useless spending as well, but broadening a tax base is a good thing, our useless politicians will create new spending programs with or without Amazon, we might as well have new tax revenue to pay for it, and enjoy our 25k new good paying jobs and all the benefits that come with it.

As was mentioned, more tax revenue is theoretically a good thing, and in some places, good in practice too. All depends what the politicians will do with it. Knowing NY politicians, I don't need to elaborate again. And I don't think it's a twisted concern, it's being pragmatic.

[ExGingi]

And I don't think it's a twisted concern, it's being pragmatic.

Idealist vs pragmatic is usually correlated to age/life experience.

[yitzgar]

Idealist vs pragmatic is usually correlated to age/life experience.

Or good old fashioned cynicism

[Moshe123]

I couldn't care less about the government tax base expanding, but 25k high-paying jobs was going to be a shot in the arm to the NYC hemish economy which is very much construction and real estate based. I work in construction and this would have benefitted all of us. It was going to create a whole new economy and likely wouldn't have ended with just Amazon.

Liberals are disgusting jealous and selfish people. They can't stand to see people succeed, while they remain behind. They eat their own. Almost all the direct jobs were going to liberals. Just look at Seattle.

[stooges44]

I couldn't care less about the government tax base expanding, but 25k high-paying jobs was going to be a shot in the arm to the NYC hemish economy which is very much construction and real estate based. I work in construction and this would have benefitted all of us. It was going to create a whole new economy and likely wouldn't have ended with just Amazon.

Liberals are disgusting jealous and selfish people. They can't stand to see people succeed, while they remain behind. They eat their own. Almost all the direct jobs were going to liberals. Just look at Seattle.

And think of all the chol hamoed trips we could've had touring the place 

[aygart]

Idealist vs pragmatic is usually correlated to age/life experience.

 "Donkeys live a long time. None of you has ever seen a dead donkey"

Or good old fashioned cynicism

 "Windmill or no windmill, he said, life would go on as it had always gone on– that is, badly."

[Yonah]

Especially since amazons average salary is below 40k, iirc. These are legitimately high paying job even if, say, half of them are below 100k

There is a huge dichotomy between white and blue collar jobs - the 40k jobs average is what happens when you combine the salaries of hourly warehouse workers in low-cost areas, with office workers in bigger cities. If you have 10 warehouse workers making 30k in West virginia and one programmer making 140 in SF, that's a 40k average. These jobs would primarily be the latter.

[avromie7]

I know our politicians as well, but how does knowing them make an increase in tax revenue by (minimum) $27 billion over 25 years in exchange of a one time $3 billion investment a bad thing? I don’t get it.

You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?

[Yonah]

My own $0.02 on the whole thing:

- I thought that the city offered too much in incentives to Amazon, and that there was a little too much uncertainty - i.e. 25K jobs over 10 years - does that mean approx 2500 new jobs per year? or 1000 jobs in year one and 24000 in year 9? (I know that' an extreme example, but the ramp up has tax, and generated revenue implications).

- This is a ploy to stoke the flames of Cuomo's presidential aspirations. He's already facing a state that has some of the highest taxes in the country, and stagnating population growth. He just admitted this week that people are leaving NY for FL to save on taxes (he blamed Trump's Property tax deduction cap, of course). If he gets Amazon to move, job growth, that's one feather in his cap. Of course, in 3 years, infrastructure will be taxed, so he'll drum up an opportunity to tax NYers for the upgrades.

- In case you didn't know - most of the major tech companies already have offices in NY - Google has a few thousand employees, Facebook has offices here - and guess what so does Amazon - Amazon Video has offices and development teams in NYC. (Audible has offices in Newark) - Even if they did get incentives to move in, they weren't big enough to warrant news articles.


I have a feeling Amazon will still grow in NYC/NY Metro, just not at the rate that they previously wanted.

[skyguy918]

My own $0.02 on the whole thing:

- I thought that the city offered too much in incentives to Amazon, and that there was a little too much uncertainty - i.e. 25K jobs over 10 years - does that mean approx 2500 new jobs per year? or 1000 jobs in year one and 24000 in year 9? (I know that' an extreme example, but the ramp up has tax, and generated revenue implications).

- This is a ploy to stoke the flames of Cuomo's presidential aspirations. He's already facing a state that has some of the highest taxes in the country, and stagnating population growth. He just admitted this week that people are leaving NY for FL to save on taxes (he blamed Trump's Property tax deduction cap, of course). If he gets Amazon to move, job growth, that's one feather in his cap. Of course, in 3 years, infrastructure will be taxed, so he'll drum up an opportunity to tax NYers for the upgrades.

- In case you didn't know - most of the major tech companies already have offices in NY - Google has a few thousand employees, Facebook has offices here - and guess what so does Amazon - Amazon Video has offices and development teams in NYC. (Audible has offices in Newark) - Even if they did get incentives to move in, they weren't big enough to warrant news articles.


I have a feeling Amazon will still grow in NYC/NY Metro, just not at the rate that they previously wanted.

+1. They also have some presence for the AWS business - I have a friend that works there. I also don't buy the argument that Amazon setting up shop here would transform the tech sector in NYC. It's already quite big, and it will never ever rise to the level of Silicon Valley. Google is expanding here as well, without the incentives. If big tech brings other tech, then it's already happening, with or without Amazon.

[Dan]

Amazon had to guarantee those jobs, or else the incentives wouldn't be given.

[Ephraimh]

You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?

First of all

Amazon had to guarantee those jobs, or else the incentives wouldn't be given.

Also, many independent analysts came to the same conclusion that the estimate Amazon gave was actually pretty conservative, I remember reading an article from Andrew Ross Sorkin who’s as left as they come and is generally against incentives, but he’s fair and data driven, agreeing that this deal is a no brainer for the City.

[avromie7]

First of allAlso, many independent analysts came to the same conclusion that the estimate Amazon gave was actually pretty conservative, I remember reading an article from Andrew Ross Sorkin who’s as left as they come and is generally against incentives, but he’s fair and data driven, agreeing that this deal is a no brainer for the City.

I was referring to the tax revenue

[Ephraimh]

I was referring to the tax revenue

#metoo

[avromie7]

#metoo

So I'll repeat myself, when was the last time these revenue estimates were remotely accurate?

[Ephraimh]

So I'll repeat myself, when was the last time these revenue estimates were remotely accurate?

I think we’re going around in circles..

[aygart]

You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?

when was the last time they were extremely overestimated?

[aygart]

@avromie7 it sounds like your argument is that really NY should go full hard right and since they are not they should just stay hard left and do nothing.

[ExGingi]

You really believe those estimates? when was the last time they weren't extremely overestimated?

Or costs underestimated.