Author Topic: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again  (Read 41000 times)

Offline as2

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #200 on: November 19, 2018, 09:01:31 AM »
Another point, as per what I read, if the plane would have continue straight to Tel Aviv it would have arrived 15-20 after sunset. Now I do understand that all yiden accepted that shabbos is starting by sunset, however I know for a fact that in the US, for example the Satmar rabanim in case of a semi emergency, like unforeseen traffic and instead of being stranded for shabbos they rule that in such a case you have till about 20 min after sunset.
My whole point of the questions is that this whole chilul shabbos avoidance is more like a nationalistic feeling. Fact is because the plane diverted to ATH it was caused double chilul shabbos deoirasa for other secular Jews with no שיטה להיתר. One for elal and for arkia. They all knew that it would happen. Non of the frum yidden had any הוה אמינא that all secular Jews together with the crew will stay in ATH. Had they agreed to continue to TLV they could avoid that,  and they would not be in violation of any deoirasa or even derabanan.
You should probably get the facts before making a post like this.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline Baglach

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Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #202 on: November 19, 2018, 09:27:33 AM »
https://onemileatatime.com/el-al-captain-tricked-passengers/
YWN rips off the ATC audio that @Chaikel spliced together for DansDeals and reuploads it with their own copyright on it and then Lucky links to their video.
SMH.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline shapsam

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #203 on: November 19, 2018, 09:43:20 AM »
YWN rips off the ATC audio that @Chaikel spliced together for DansDeals and reuploads it with their own copyright on it and then Lucky links to their video.
SMH.
Did/will you reach out to him?

Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #204 on: November 19, 2018, 09:45:55 AM »
Did/will you reach out to him?
Wasn't planning on it.
YWN is sick though.
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Offline chff

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #205 on: November 19, 2018, 09:48:14 AM »
Wasn't planning on it.
YWN is sick though.

At least have Lucky change the link to yours

Offline ExGingi

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #206 on: November 19, 2018, 09:53:47 AM »
YWN rips off the ATC audio that @Chaikel spliced together for DansDeals and reuploads it with their own copyright on it and then Lucky links to their video.
SMH.

They probably don't even realize it's spliced (do they even know what that means?)
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline chff

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Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #208 on: November 19, 2018, 10:00:53 AM »
At least have Lucky change the link to yours
OK
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Offline chff

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Offline Dan

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline chff

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #211 on: November 19, 2018, 10:16:02 AM »
To learn what?

More details - Everyone has a uniqueness how they tell a story

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #212 on: November 19, 2018, 10:23:23 AM »
They probably don't even realize it's spliced (do they even know what that means?)
Who cares how much effort went into making the video, ripping it off is just blatant stealing of content.
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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #213 on: November 19, 2018, 10:47:18 AM »
Worth noting that LY 1 which should be the plane that would fly back motzei shabbos was ontime so they did mange to get it back https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY1/history/20181117/2230Z/LLBG/KJFK

Offline chff

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #214 on: November 19, 2018, 10:48:45 AM »
Worth noting that LY 1 which should be the plane that would fly back motzei shabbos was ontime so they did mange to get it back https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY1/history/20181117/2230Z/LLBG/KJFK

Get back what?

Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #215 on: November 19, 2018, 10:52:05 AM »
Worth noting that LY 1 which should be the plane that would fly back motzei shabbos was ontime so they did mange to get it back https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ELY1/history/20181117/2230Z/LLBG/KJFK
Noted on ddms already :)
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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #216 on: November 19, 2018, 11:23:17 AM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #217 on: November 19, 2018, 12:02:05 PM »
https://www.vosizneias.com/310339/2018/11/19/new-york-passengers-on-nightmare-ny-flight-mulling-legal-action-against-el-al-airline-planning-compensation/
Quote
Sources close to El Al said that the airline was planning to offer compensation to the passengers and would make decisions in the coming days.

Offline Jo 08701

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #218 on: November 19, 2018, 12:35:31 PM »
Here are the facts, shkiah in TLV was 4:40:38 as per Hebrew calendar. As per flight aware the flight took off 11:46.
If you look on the history of flight LY02 when they have the 747 for it, you can see that a week before,  Nov 8 the flying time which includes taxiing was 9:49 which means from gate departure till gate arrival.
From 11:46 EST to 4:40 IST is 9:54, that is even more time as the week before, which it was 9:49 including taxi before takeoff which is a substantial amount of time.
I am sure had the flight landed in TLV they would have got priority to get to the gate,  plus sometimes ATC can give a faster route.
To conclude, this whole fiasco and the double chilul shabbos could have been avoided. If the plane reaches the gate before shkiah, people would have had no problem al pi halacha to leave the aircraft to the airport.
ElAl could have arranged a nice shabbos in one of the Lounges airside, plus you understand the Israeli government is more lenient to just have the whole group escorted to a large area till moitzai shabbos. They could even make an eiruv in the entire airport etc.
I am not looking to take away blame from Elal as they we're wrong with delay to begin with, and they should have given an option for people to reschedule for Moitzai Shabbos before the boarding. That wouldnt delay the flight any longer. If anyone chose to stay,  he can't complain that he is arriving 2 minutes before shkiah.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #219 on: November 19, 2018, 12:38:23 PM »
Here are the facts, shkiah in TLV was 4:40:38 as per Hebrew calendar. As per flight aware the flight took off 11:46.
If you look on the history of flight LY02 when they have the 747 for it, you can see that a week before,  Nov 8 the flying time which includes taxiing was 9:49 which means from gate departure till gate arrival.
From 11:46 EST to 4:40 IST is 9:54, that is even more time as the week before, which it was 9:49 including taxi before takeoff which is a substantial amount of time.
I am sure had the flight landed in TLV they would have got priority to get to the gate,  plus sometimes ATC can give a faster route.
To conclude, this whole fiasco and the double chilul shabbos could have been avoided. If the plane reaches the gate before shkiah, people would have had no problem al pi halacha to leave the aircraft to the airport.
ElAl could have arranged a nice shabbos in one of the Lounges airside, plus you understand the Israeli government is more lenient to just have the whole group escorted to a large area till moitzai shabbos. They could even make an eiruv in the entire airport etc.
I am not looking to take away blame from Elal as they we're wrong with delay to begin with, and they should have given an option for people to reschedule for Moitzai Shabbos before the boarding. That wouldnt delay the flight any longer. If anyone chose to stay,  he can't complain that he is arriving 2 minutes before shkiah.

ELAL is starting to practice damage control now.

Some Hebrew articles:
https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5409449,00.html
http://www.news1.co.il/Archive/001-D-408071-00.html - there's a video clip at the end of this one, where they seem to be making the assertion you are saying that it was technically possible to land before Shabbos. Assuming this is true, they could have handled the situation much better, by communicating with the passengers, explaining the options, and allowing them a quick choice whether to take this risk (and possibly get some Halachic guidance) or to deplane, causing everyone else to definitely arrive after Shkia.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan