Author Topic: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again  (Read 42517 times)

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #320 on: November 20, 2018, 04:37:09 PM »
Not sure what you are asking, but LY008 was in the air and landed during Shabbos (for a legitimate reason, though taking off in the first place might not have been legitimate).
Not counting unforeseen situations (medical emergency) they would never allow a flight to be in the air during Shabbos. They would always divert it, correct?
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #321 on: November 20, 2018, 04:38:57 PM »
Not counting unforeseen situations (medical emergency) they would never allow a flight to be in the air during Shabbos. They would always divert it, correct?
Yep. Which is why everyone who says that people are taking a big risk flying on Thursday night on El Al, are wrong. A risk that you will end up in a weird random place, sure. A risk that you will fly on shabbas? No. IMO

Offline ExGingi

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #322 on: November 20, 2018, 04:43:28 PM »
Yep. Which is why everyone who says that people are taking a big risk flying on Thursday night on El Al, are wrong. A risk that you will end up in a weird random place, sure. A risk that you will fly on shabbas? No. IMO

Though ELAL can claim they didn't fly on Shabbos also the last time they diverted to ATH, even though there wasn't sufficient time before sunset to even clear immigration IINM. So it's not just about being stuck in a random place for Shabbos (and that could be without any food). They probably learned their lesson from that experience when they decided to divert LY008 to FCO. They ended up being "lucky" when they had a legitimate reason to complete the flight to its original destination despite it being Shabbos.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #323 on: November 20, 2018, 04:46:27 PM »
Yep. Which is why everyone who says that people are taking a big risk flying on Thursday night on El Al, are wrong. A risk that you will end up in a weird random place, sure. A risk that you will fly on shabbas? No. IMO
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Offline Pad18

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Offline ExGingi

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #325 on: November 20, 2018, 05:28:02 PM »
https://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/609567

Wow. From that article it seems like he spoke to Rabbi Sorotzkin (whom I'm sure he respects and wants to keep as a client).

But most interesting are the following 3 paragraphs:
Quote

בשיחה אף עלה כי אם היה קורה אירוע חריג של אלימות כפי שתואר בעיתונות, הנוהל המיידי הוא להוריד את הנוסע האלים מהטיסה או לאזוק אותו. ולא קרה דבר כזה לא בניו יורק, אתונה או ישראל.

עוד עולה מהשיחות עם המנכ"ל כי הוא מודע לכך שלא התרחש אירוע חריג באזור תא הטייס, וכי הטייס היה מודע לכך שבמידה והטיסה תנחת עד השקיעה ביום שישי בשעה 16:40, מה שהסתבר כאפשרי,  הדבר לא ייחשב לחילול שבת.

במקרה כזה, יוכלו נוסעי הטיסה החרדים להעביר את השבת באזור הלאונג' בנתב"ג והנוסעים החילונים יעשו כנפשם. ההחלטה לעצור באתונה, שהתקבלה על ידי הנהלת החברה, התבררה כשגויה.



Google Translate did a decent job:
Quote
The conversation also revealed that if an exceptional incident of violence occurred as described in the press, the immediate procedure would be to remove the violent passenger from the flight or to handcuff him. And no such thing happened in New York, Athens or Israel.

The talks with the CEO also indicate that he is aware that there was no unusual event in the cockpit area and that the pilot was aware that if the plane landed at sunset on Friday at 16:40, it would not be considered desecration of the Sabbath.

In such a case, the ultra-Orthodox flight passengers will be able to pass the Sabbath in the lounge area at Ben-Gurion International Airport and the secular passengers will do the same.the decision to stop in Athens, which was accepted by the company's management, turned out to be wrong.

The second paragraph above confirms what I said here.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline shapsam

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #326 on: November 20, 2018, 05:40:23 PM »
I have no idea what possible grounds they could have to sue.

If anything the non religious passangers who had to wait in Athens for Israir to pick up have more grounds to sue!
Looks like its already bearing fruit:
https://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/609567

Offline mochjas

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #327 on: November 20, 2018, 05:44:51 PM »
Yep. Which is why everyone who says that people are taking a big risk flying on Thursday night on El Al, are wrong. A risk that you will end up in a weird random place, sure. A risk that you will fly on shabbas? No. IMO
How about a risk that you will have to spend shabbat in an airport?

Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #328 on: November 20, 2018, 05:49:06 PM »
Yep. Which is why everyone who says that people are taking a big risk flying on Thursday night on El Al, are wrong. A risk that you will end up in a weird random place, sure. A risk that you will fly on shabbas? No. IMO
The LY flight that diverted to ATH a few months ago landed within the 18 minutes.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #329 on: November 20, 2018, 06:00:16 PM »
The LY flight that diverted to ATH a few months ago landed within the 18 minutes.
Which is what I said above.

I wish we can stop talking about "within the 18 minutes" especially when referring to a flight landing, and especially when it's a 747.

At a bare minimum (depending on which airport) they would have to land 30 minutes before sunset in order to enable passengers to settle in the airport for Shabbos, and probably more than that.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #330 on: November 20, 2018, 06:23:15 PM »
The LY flight that diverted to ATH a few months ago landed within the 18 minutes.
Oh wow I didnít realize that. I stand corrected then until they improve their buffer

Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #331 on: November 20, 2018, 06:24:58 PM »
Oh wow I didnít realize that. I stand corrected then until they improve their buffer
They could have landed in Western Europe and had a much larger buffer. They decided to go to ATH purely for financial reasons. That's their right, but is another reason why I say to avoid Thursday LY flights.
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Offline Moshke

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #332 on: November 20, 2018, 07:19:02 PM »
Lucky never updated his video link. Dead now though.
Next time before the video starts put the DD logo or something branding.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #333 on: November 20, 2018, 07:21:04 PM »
Next time before the video starts put the DD logo or something branding.
Then let them rip it off. Free advertisement.  :)
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Offline Dan

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline shimino1

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #335 on: November 21, 2018, 02:51:43 AM »
For those asking about the lawsuit, there are two reasons for it:

1. If ELAL gives them hush money or settles out of court, WIN!

2. If you know Israeli mentality at all, you will realize that the best way to avoid another Shabbos fiasco and anti Charedi smirch campaign is to make it hurt for the company.  Every time one of these stories comes out it does real damage to our community.

Not everyone here follows the Israeli news closely so allow me to elaborate: Whenever there is a Charedi vs "normal people" story happens (and you wouldn't believe the garbage that qualifies as such), it is the within the top five news stories of the day. In Israel! the land of wars, terrorist attacks, rockets, dead soldiers, wounded civilians, rallies, politics, corruption, government shout-downs, strikes, supreme court battles, organized crime, etc' etc'.
It could be the middle of a war, the government can collapse, the economy can die and somehow one of the top stories of the day will still be some altercation between two random civilians just because one of them happens to be Charedi! Oh and forget about any sort of objective journalism.
It is enough that someone writes an anti Charedi post on Facebook and is deemed credible. No investigative journalism is necessary at all. If the network wants to protect themselves from a libel lawsuit they will say "this is a post that appeared on Facebook" and then they will spend the next 15 minutes discussing the story like it was the gold standard of an investigative journalistic news report.

We can't control the lies and selective facts that people use to create inflammatory, anti semitic/charedi posts on Facebook but we can try to make it hurt for the companies or networks that use those fake news stories to further their own agendas, boost their viewership or to shift righteous blame away from themselves.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #336 on: November 21, 2018, 09:33:50 AM »
Not everyone here follows the Israeli news closely so allow me to elaborate: Whenever there is a Charedi vs "normal people" story happens (and you wouldn't believe the garbage that qualifies as such), it is the within the top five news stories of the day. In Israel! the land of wars, terrorist attacks, rockets, dead soldiers, wounded civilians, rallies, politics, corruption, government shout-downs, strikes, supreme court battles, organized crime, etc' etc'.
That is so disheartening to hear. Sounds like they are taking a page from USA media. Race wars and identity politics sells :(.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #337 on: November 21, 2018, 09:53:43 AM »
That is so disheartening to hear. Sounds like they are taking a page from USA media. Race wars and identity politics sells :(.
The Israeli media has been doing this far longer and far more blatantly than US MSM.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #338 on: November 21, 2018, 09:58:26 AM »
Not everyone here follows the Israeli news closely so allow me to elaborate: Whenever there is a Charedi vs "normal people" story happens (and you wouldn't believe the garbage that qualifies as such), it is the within the top five news stories of the day. In Israel! the land of wars, terrorist attacks, rockets, dead soldiers, wounded civilians, rallies, politics, corruption, government shout-downs, strikes, supreme court battles, organized crime, etc' etc'.
It could be the middle of a war, the government can collapse, the economy can die and somehow one of the top stories of the day will still be some altercation between two random civilians just because one of them happens to be Charedi! Oh and forget about any sort of objective journalism.
It is enough that someone writes an anti Charedi post on Facebook and is deemed credible. No investigative journalism is necessary at all. If the network wants to protect themselves from a libel lawsuit they will say "this is a post that appeared on Facebook" and then they will spend the next 15 minutes discussing the story like it was the gold standard of an investigative journalistic news report.
Terrible!!! When the hatred and anti-Semitism starts at home what can you expect from others?
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Offline Boruch999

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #339 on: November 21, 2018, 10:00:37 AM »
Terrible!!! When the hatred and anti-Semitism starts at home what can you expect from others?
+1

The Sages tell us that the Second Temple was destroyed due to hatred between Jews.