Author Topic: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again  (Read 20663 times)

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #150 on: November 18, 2018, 05:55:33 PM »
He kept saying LY008 instead of 002 before correcting himself, hope he wasn't drunk.
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Offline ual902

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #151 on: November 18, 2018, 06:02:19 PM »
The ATC video is not available, did ELAL have Youtube take it down?!

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #152 on: November 18, 2018, 06:02:53 PM »
The ATC video is not available, did ELAL have Youtube take it down?!
.
@Chaikel found more audio that changes things. Working on it now.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline davidrotts63

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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #154 on: November 18, 2018, 06:38:25 PM »

Who's that? ;)
The guy who keeps deleting my posts!  :P
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #155 on: November 18, 2018, 06:49:44 PM »
The guy who keeps deleting my posts! 
That may be why we dont see him, it's a full time job!
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Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #156 on: November 18, 2018, 06:51:02 PM »
http://www.bhol.co.il/news/954394

Omet Chadad, a rising star in the Israeli law scene, will be representing Sholom Ber Sorotzkin and other passengers in a suit against ElAl. This guy is from Yankel Weinrot's office. He successfully defended Moshe Montag (Deputy Mayor of Bet Shemesh) in a very complicated bribery case. He handled Yitzchak Pindrus (Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem) appeal to run for Mayor of Elad, but unfortunately lost in Bagatz. He is known as the sharpest mind in Israeli civil law today, inheriting Yankel's stellar reputation.

ElAl freaks out, and asks for a meeting so a settlement can be reached before he drags them through court and causes a government level scandal (the Chareidim are currently the swing members in Netanyahu's shaky government after Lieberman's resignation).

And this is after ElAl themselves threatened legal action against "certain violent passengers"!

This story is shaking the transportation ministry, while Sholom Ber has sworn revenge for being fooled into announcing on the plane that they will land before Shabbos. This is far from over....

Offline Dan

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #159 on: November 18, 2018, 06:58:34 PM »
Can we hear this ATC recording somewhere?
It's in the post.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #160 on: November 18, 2018, 07:00:16 PM »
It's in the post.
I see now. I skimmed through the first half because I already read it...
Ironically I went to YouTube to see if it's there, and I'm listening to it now on Dansdeals YouTube page ;)
ETA: I wish we had Steve on ATC :)
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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #161 on: November 18, 2018, 07:03:32 PM »
I am not a Rav and I can't pasken.
But I do have a question which i wonna understand.

There is an halacha about traveling on a boat shabbos and when to embark and what to do if it's arriving on shabbos.
Now,  you can argue that a plane is similar to a boat, since there is no extra work done per passenger,  and that that the pilot is a Jew,  it's definitely not a de'orisa since he is anyway mechalel shabbos for himself,  and I can argue that it's even less problematic then using electric in Israel for shabbos as the workers are doing it for the Jewish people,  but flying a plane is the same work as for 1 person as for 300 people.
Now if someone is on a plane which was scheduled to arrive 3 hours before shabbos, you can argue it's equivalent as embarking on a ship on Wednesday 2000 years ago,  which was clearly allowed.
It would be much easier and more cost effective for elal to have a plane in such a situation as this week to land in Israel and park by the gate and let the passengers spend the shabbos on the plane,  as leaving the plane will be a problem with Techum.
They can even have a rav and food brought from the airport since for someone who is erev shabbos at the airport is allowed to enter the plane.
Again this is in case of emergency.
Again I am not a Rav,  just for curiosity it's interesting having the discussion and maybe some Talmud chacham can contribute to it.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #162 on: November 18, 2018, 07:05:17 PM »
Any info on this pilot? Many pilots would take any opportunity to fly the queen...;)
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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #164 on: November 18, 2018, 07:30:10 PM »
I am not a Rav and I can't pasken.
But I do have a question which i wonna understand.

There is an halacha about traveling on a boat shabbos and when to embark and what to do if it's arriving on shabbos.
Now,  you can argue that a plane is similar to a boat, since there is no extra work done per passenger,  and that that the pilot is a Jew,  it's definitely not a de'orisa since he is anyway mechalel shabbos for himself,  and I can argue that it's even less problematic then using electric in Israel for shabbos as the workers are doing it for the Jewish people,  but flying a plane is the same work as for 1 person as for 300 people.
Now if someone is on a plane which was scheduled to arrive 3 hours before shabbos, you can argue it's equivalent as embarking on a ship on Wednesday 2000 years ago,  which was clearly allowed.
It would be much easier and more cost effective for elal to have a plane in such a situation as this week to land in Israel and park by the gate and let the passengers spend the shabbos on the plane,  as leaving the plane will be a problem with Techum.
They can even have a rav and food brought from the airport since for someone who is erev shabbos at the airport is allowed to enter the plane.
Again this is in case of emergency.
Again I am not a Rav,  just for curiosity it's interesting having the discussion and maybe some Talmud chacham can contribute to it.
All true if the pilot and majority of the passengers hadnít been Jewish. Now that they are, you cannot allow a Jew (or non Jew, if most passengers are Jewish) to do a melacha for you or enjoy it after he did it, even if he was doing it anyway.
Iím not a rav either, but had the pilot flown into shabbos, there may be a problem leaving the airport till Sunday afternoon (כדי שיעשו) in order not to benefit from the חילול שבת. (Besides the fact that ElAl canít fly on shabbos even if they wanted to, due to a signed contract with a very large fine if they break it)
There actually was a case where r moshe ZtĒl allowed someone to fly on a non Jewish airline arriving on shabbos and stay in the airport till after shabbos. (Was for a חולה but not פיקוח נפש.)