Author Topic: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again  (Read 40994 times)

Online ExGingi

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #240 on: November 19, 2018, 05:46:56 PM »
לפני שאתה יודע את זה חדשות ישראל פרסם מאמר באנגלית מתורגם לעברית עם Google לתרגם שום דבר לא קרה.

ALOL (quite painfull given my current cold).

Just as unitelligible as the original.

Let's forgo all (google) translations. Give it to me in your own מאמע לשון - native tongue. And if you're saying that you wrote it in your native tongue, then please post an audio, as I'm having a hard time understanding the written sentence.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #241 on: November 19, 2018, 05:47:22 PM »
1. Would United or Delta have gone back to the gate to accommodate ~50% of the plane who wanted to get off?

2. Would United or Delta have diverted a flight to Greece, paid for accommodations, and then sent a special charter flight to pick up passengers?

Aside from the pilot lying and not turning around after he said he did (which is wrong, but possibly didn't change anything), I'm not sure the best outcome wasn't achieved once people decided to take the risk and board a flight barely 12 hours from candle-lighting in TLV.
UA cancelled their Thursday night flight after religious pax asked to get off the plane.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #242 on: November 19, 2018, 05:50:10 PM »
UA cancelled their Thursday night flight after religious pax asked to get off the plane.
Will have a DDMS post how unfair this was to other passengers?  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #243 on: November 19, 2018, 05:50:49 PM »
UA cancelled their Thursday night flight after religious pax asked to get off the plane.
Had they begun to taxi?

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #244 on: November 19, 2018, 05:56:28 PM »
1. Would United or Delta have gone back to the gate to accommodate ~50% of the plane who wanted to get off?

2. Would United or Delta have diverted a flight to Greece, paid for accommodations, and then sent a special charter flight to pick up passengers?

Aside from the pilot lying and not turning around after he said he did (which is wrong, but possibly didn't change anything), I'm not sure the best outcome wasn't achieved once people decided to take the risk and board a flight barely 12 hours from candle-lighting in TLV.
The answer to #1 IMHO might be yes. While the answer to #2 is definitely no (but presumably you're talking about non-Jewish pilots, which might make it different halachically).

As previously stated (and explained in the article by Assaf Shmueli) the big problem here was the gap between people's expectations and reality. It is very likely that the people boarding weren't consciously aware that they are boarding a flight that should take about 10 hours with no delays whatsoever, 12 hours before candle-lighting in TLV.  If only they were each made to say those words themselves ("I am boarding a flight that should take 10 hours if there are no additional delays which are beyond anyone's control, knowing that in 12 hours Shabbos comes in at my destination") everything might have played out differently.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #245 on: November 19, 2018, 05:58:03 PM »
UA cancelled their Thursday night flight after religious pax asked to get off the plane.
Thursday night, or Thursday afternoon? I doubt any Shomer Shabbos person would be booked on UA Thursday night flight.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #246 on: November 19, 2018, 06:02:08 PM »
Thursday night, or Thursday afternoon? I doubt any Shomer Shabbos person would be booked on UA Thursday night flight.
Both were cancelled. Not sure how long they waited on the runway.

Will have a DDMS post how unfair this was to other passengers?  :)
After 4 hours UA has no choice but to let people off.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #247 on: November 19, 2018, 06:08:30 PM »
After 4 hours UA has no choice but to let people off.
Learning a lot from this thread.
I just found a new supply of forks!

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #248 on: November 19, 2018, 06:08:36 PM »
After 4 hours UA has no choice but to let people off.

Is LY not subject to the same rules?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #249 on: November 19, 2018, 06:12:26 PM »
Is LY not subject to the same rules?
They are, but they were not on the runway for 4 hours.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #250 on: November 19, 2018, 06:25:17 PM »
Both were cancelled. Not sure how long they waited on the runway.
After 4 hours UA has no choice but to let people off.
If UA had to let people off for a tarmac delay, I'm not sure if it is fair to say they did it for the shomer shabbos pax.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #251 on: November 19, 2018, 06:57:15 PM »
If UA had to let people off for a tarmac delay, I'm not sure if it is fair to say they did it for the shomer shabbos pax.
That's who allegedly did the complaining.
Again, just what people commented. I haven't investigated.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.


Offline Jo 08701

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #253 on: November 19, 2018, 09:31:26 PM »
On a positive side of the story,  it's noteworthy that about half the people of a plane which you can argue represented the entire population in Israel, chose not to be mechalel shabbos. You can even argue that it under presented the chareidi sector.
I think the Barditichiver would be happy from such a story.
I doubt that had it happen 40 years ago if you would have such a large percentage. מי כעמך ישראל

Offline joey89

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #254 on: November 19, 2018, 10:09:32 PM »
http://matzav.com/el-al-managing-director-addresses-anti-chareidi-sentiments-after-latest-story-promises-orthodox-chamber-to-continue-working-with-the-frum-community/
It sounds like a press release aimed at damage control with an assist from the orthodox chamber of commerce, especially the last paragraph “The Orthodox Chamber of Commerce will be serving as an exclusive vehicle through which members of the Orthodox community can respectfully express questions and concerns to El Al in a manner that will ensure that issues are addressed by the upper echelon of El Al’s administration in a timely manner. The chamber may be reached at duvi@ojchamber.com” (emphasis mine)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #255 on: November 19, 2018, 10:49:50 PM »
ALOL (quite painfull given my current cold).

Just as unitelligible as the original.

Let's forgo all (google) translations. Give it to me in your own מאמע לשון - native tongue. And if you're saying that you wrote it in your native tongue, then please post an audio, as I'm having a hard time understanding the written sentence.

I think he is suggesting (in jest) that the stories about violence published in Israeli media are based on a bad Google translate of an article in English that mentioned "urgency and hand-shaking"

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #256 on: November 19, 2018, 11:04:46 PM »
It sounds like a press release aimed at damage control with an assist from the orthodox chamber of commerce, especially the last paragraph “The Orthodox Chamber of Commerce will be serving as an exclusive vehicle through which members of the Orthodox community can respectfully express questions and concerns to El Al in a manner that will ensure that issues are addressed by the upper echelon of El Al’s administration in a timely manner. The chamber may be reached at duvi@ojchamber.com” (emphasis mine)
It sure is. Apparently another self serving lobbyist.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #257 on: November 20, 2018, 12:38:44 AM »
It sounds like a press release aimed at damage control with an assist from the orthodox chamber of commerce, especially the last paragraph “The Orthodox Chamber of Commerce will be serving as an exclusive vehicle through which members of the Orthodox community can respectfully express questions and concerns to El Al in a manner that will ensure that issues are addressed by the upper echelon of El Al’s administration in a timely manner. The chamber may be reached at duvi@ojchamber.com” (emphasis mine)
LOL
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline joey89

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #258 on: November 20, 2018, 12:50:01 AM »
It sure is. Apparently another self serving lobbyist.

Don’t mind self serving lobbyists (they have the ability to get things heard which the average person doesn’t), what gnaws at me is the way he is trying to position himself as the ONLY person worth working with and that he speaks for everyone. ELAL is more than happy to go along with it being that it looks like they are taking the orthodox worlds concerns seriously while simultaneously knowing that he won’t push to hard so as not to lose access. It is just all to cynical, (which is the central ELAL issue that led to this fiasco)

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #259 on: November 20, 2018, 12:53:07 AM »
I don't think anybody is taking this clown even remotely seriously, least of all Elal.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים