Author Topic: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again  (Read 79432 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #380 on: November 25, 2018, 10:14:41 AM »
I meant in the Israeli press.
Keep in mind, there were some 150 shomrei passengers, I'm sure that there was a "safety in numbers" delusion. Had each passenger been alone on such a flight, there is a much bigger chance they don't board.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #381 on: November 25, 2018, 10:18:40 AM »
El Al just made headlines as they outright lied.
Did anyone every provide what the pilot said? They were all recording 24/7 so you would think someone would have it on tape.
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Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #382 on: November 25, 2018, 10:18:59 AM »
Keep in mind, there were some 150 shomrei passengers, I'm sure that there was a "safety in numbers" delusion. Had each passenger been alone on such a flight, there is a much bigger chance they don't board.
I'm just upset because once whatever mistakes were made on both sides, elal still came through in getting everyone accommodated at a great cost to them. I'm sure they could have found a loophole about landing on shabbos if they wanted to.

It's upsetting that there's zero hakaras hatov that there's one airline in the world that would divert a flight and pay for hundreds of hotel rooms and send a charter flight motzash.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #383 on: November 25, 2018, 10:19:33 AM »
LY is probably never going to release that recording.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #384 on: November 25, 2018, 10:22:55 AM »
LY is probably never going to release that recording.
I was thinking from a passenger.
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Offline shapsam

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #385 on: November 25, 2018, 10:29:05 AM »
LY is probably never going to release that recording.
Maybe the courts will force them to release it.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #386 on: November 25, 2018, 10:41:41 AM »
I'm just upset because once whatever mistakes were made on both sides, elal still came through in getting everyone accommodated at a great cost to them. I'm sure they could have found a loophole about landing on shabbos if they wanted to.

It's upsetting that there's zero hakaras hatov that there's one airline in the world that would divert a flight and pay for hundreds of hotel rooms and send a charter flight motzash.
The pilot lied to passengers. Took off without doing pre-departure safety checks. Took off with dozens of unruly passengers - standard procedure is to return to the gate with even *1* such passenger. El Al breached who knows how many safety regulations to get the plane to Athens before shabbos to *save* money, not lose money. They don't fly on Shabbos and made those accommodations out of necessity for their bottom line, not because of the goodness of their hearts.
 
But even if none of this were true, they then deliberately and strategically fabricated the violence to slander Hareidim knowing full well the media would fall for it - and guess what? It worked. In our circles, the truth is out. But speak to the average shmo who heard about this flight, they'll tell you religious fanatics abused the crew.

This last part is so insanely disgusting and vile I want to smash my head against the wall just thinking that any frum Jew would defend El Al's behavior in any way at all.

The hakaras hatov goes to Chabad of Athens, and of that there has been plenty. If they, like many other Chabad houses, wouldn't have had enough food for 150, what would shabbos have looked like?

Passengers also have been effusive praising induvidual El Al employees. But El Al as a whole? They can go screw themselves back to Gander.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #387 on: November 25, 2018, 10:56:42 AM »
The pilot lied to passengers. Took off without doing pre-departure safety checks. Took off with dozens of unruly passengers - standard procedure is to return to the gate with even *1* such passenger. El Al breached who knows how many safety regulations to get the plane to Athens before shabbos to *save* money, not lose money. They don't fly on Shabbos and made those accommodations out of necessity for their bottom line, not because of the goodness of their hearts.
 
But even if none of this were true, they then deliberately and strategically fabricated the violence to slander Hareidim knowing full well the media would fall for it - and guess what? It worked. In our circles, the truth is out. But speak to the average shmo who heard about this flight, they'll tell you religious fanatics abused the crew.

This last part is so insanely disgusting and vile I want to smash my head against the wall just thinking that any frum Jew would defend El Al's behavior in any way at all.

The hakaras hatov goes to Chabad of Athens, and of that there has been plenty. If they, like many other Chabad houses, wouldn't have had enough food for 150, what would shabbos have looked like?

Passengers also have been effusive praising induvidual El Al employees. But El Al as a whole? They can go screw themselves back to Gander.
1. Source that elal didn't do safety checks?
2. Ive heard many first hand claims that passangers weren't unruly.
3. Elal could have saved the msog money by landing in Israel and not adhering to their self imposed policy.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #388 on: November 25, 2018, 10:59:58 AM »
1. Source that elal didn't do safety checks?
2. Ive heard many first hand claims that passangers weren't unruly.
3. Elal could have saved the msog money by landing in Israel and not adhering to their self imposed policy.
1) Multiple passengers including a reporter.
2) The pilot himself told ATC that passengers were unruly.
3) They can also save/make money by flying regurlarly on Shabbos.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #389 on: November 25, 2018, 11:02:56 AM »
1) Multiple passengers including a reporter.
2) The pilot himself told ATC that passengers were unruly.
3) They can also save/make money by flying regurlarly on Shabbos.
I love how suddenly the goal posts can be moved such that unruly passangers is now the airlines fault, not the passangers fault.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #390 on: November 25, 2018, 11:11:24 AM »
1. Source that elal didn't do safety checks?
2. Ive heard many first hand claims that passangers weren't unruly.
3. Elal could have saved the msog money by landing in Israel and not adhering to their self imposed policy.
1) all the passengers saying they just took off.
2) getting up and asking to deplane is "unruly" by passenger behavior standards
3) there'$ a rea$on they have the policy. And once the policy is in place, you can't just flout it, they would be sued for far more and the boycott would have been immidiate and far reaching.

They saved money by diverting to Athens and they had NO idea if Chabad would have been able to handle the crowd or not. They couldn't care less.

And again, you are ignoring the main point that they deliberately slandered Jews to cover their @$$€$. AND IT WORKED! Imagine any other airline or company doing that to any other minority?! I mean twitter couldn't buy enough bandwith to handle the outrage. And you want people to be appreciative of that?!

There's a word for what they did - anti semitism. We need to stick up for ourselves and not let bigots lie to, dehumanize and then patronize us.

Offline Dan

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #391 on: November 25, 2018, 11:12:06 AM »
The pilot lied to passengers. Took off without doing pre-departure safety checks. Took off with dozens of unruly passengers - standard procedure is to return to the gate with even *1* such passenger. El Al breached who knows how many safety regulations to get the plane to Athens before shabbos to *save* money, not lose money. They don't fly on Shabbos and made those accommodations out of necessity for their bottom line, not because of the goodness of their hearts.
 
But even if none of this were true, they then deliberately and strategically fabricated the violence to slander Hareidim knowing full well the media would fall for it - and guess what? It worked. In our circles, the truth is out. But speak to the average shmo who heard about this flight, they'll tell you religious fanatics abused the crew.

This last part is so insanely disgusting and vile I want to smash my head against the wall just thinking that any frum Jew would defend El Al's behavior in any way at all.

The hakaras hatov goes to Chabad of Athens, and of that there has been plenty. If they, like many other Chabad houses, wouldn't have had enough food for 150, what would shabbos have looked like?

Passengers also have been effusive praising induvidual El Al employees. But El Al as a whole? They can go screw themselves back to Gander.
Good summary.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #392 on: November 25, 2018, 11:14:26 AM »
I love how suddenly the goal posts can be moved such that unruly passangers is now the airlines fault, not the passangers fault.
Can we leave goal posts out of this.  :)
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #393 on: November 25, 2018, 11:16:39 AM »
For anyone who thinks "Anti Semitic" is over the top, please switch Hareidim for any other minority.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #394 on: November 25, 2018, 11:20:26 AM »
1) all the passengers saying they just took off.
2) getting up and asking to deplane is "unruly" by passenger behavior standards
3) there'$ a rea$on they have the policy. And once the policy is in place, you can't just flout it, they would be sued for far more and the boycott would have been immidiate and far reaching.

They saved money by diverting to Athens and they had NO idea if Chabad would have been able to handle the crowd or not. They couldn't care less.

And again, you are ignoring the main point that they deliberately slandered Jews to cover their @$$€$. AND IT WORKED! Imagine any other airline or company doing that to any other minority?! I mean twitter couldn't buy enough bandwith to handle the outrage. And you want people to be appreciative of that?!

There's a word for what they did - anti semitism. We need to stick up for ourselves and not let bigots lie to, dehumanize and then patronize us.

There are two concurrent stories going on here, which are constantly being confused:

1) ELAL'S total disrespect towards ALL of its passengers, where they truly give an impression that they feel that they are this benevolent great corporation that does everyone a huge favor by agreeing to transport them between various points and TLV.

2) The audacity and antisemitism of many, which was flamed by ELAL, and "Chareidim". Supposedly both during the flight, publicly blaming "Chareidim" for ELAL's decisions and actions, as well as after the flight with public statements that are yet to be retracted.

Kalman Liebeskind writes a good piece regarding #2 here. Though for every one of those, there are at least 3 that would easily make it into Der Stürmer.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #395 on: November 25, 2018, 11:39:48 AM »
For anyone who thinks "Anti Semitic" is over the top, please switch Hareidim for any other minority.
How about Muslims?
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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #396 on: November 25, 2018, 11:43:55 AM »
How about Muslims?
1,000,000% it would be panned as Islamaphobic and racist - and rightly so.

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #397 on: November 25, 2018, 11:48:09 AM »
1,000,000% it would be panned as Islamaphobic and racist - and rightly so.
The right would have a field day with it. Also I haven't seen one piece on this in the MSM (cable news).
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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #398 on: November 25, 2018, 11:55:19 AM »
The originators of fake news before fake news was cool.

I am guessing that this is another one of their fake news items: https://travel.walla.co.il/item/3202798

While it would be very welcome to seem SQ flying to TLV, I doubt that it's happening yet. They wouldn't do anything that might anger the Malaysians.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: El al flight arriving close to Shabbos - again
« Reply #399 on: November 25, 2018, 11:59:09 AM »
I am guessing that this is another one of their fake news items:
You might want to add a warning don't click on the pictures/stories on the left side of the page.
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