Author Topic: El Al Offers Free Round-Trip Ticket to Passengers on Shabbat-Diverted Flight (Read 6745 times)

yandmk · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2019, 07:53:06 PM »

Another example?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/fly-uniteds-final-747-flight/
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/en-route-final-united-747-flight/
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/trip-notes/trip-notes-final-united-747-flight-2-days-maui/
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/milespoints/used-230000-united-miles-buy-piece-747/

And then:
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/10-quick-sunday-takes-whats-going-aviation-credit-deals-know/#El_Al_Tidbits_Goodbye_747_jumbos_hello_tiny_787-8s_onto_their_flagship_route

Quote

El Al’s jumbo 747 carried over 400 passengers from JFK to Tel Aviv for years. It recently flew its last flight on that route without fanfare.
The final El Al 747 flights will be from Tel Aviv to Rome on November 1, with the return from Rome to Tel Aviv on November 3. Will you book travel on these flights? Nothing will be as fun as the United 747 retirement flight that I took to Hawaii a couple years ago.

No mention of this... https://www.elal.com/he/FrequentFlyer/Pages/hp/747-goodbye.aspx (I posted the details of this in another thread)

Obsession? Of course. And that's ok. I'm just not sure how you don't see it....

yandmk · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:01:12 PM »

Quote from: Yehuda57 on October 29, 2019, 07:52:41 PM

Look at any post of his about AA, which include all kinds of anecdotal stuff about his *personal* experiences, and yes, he's posted many a screed about united.

Let me remind you what flight we're talking about:

El Al purposefully blamed the fiasco on frum passengers, knowing full well the Israeli media would jump on it and go with their story.
They have done that before, blaming delays on men refusing to be seated next to women when that had nothing to do with the delay.

They still have not apologized.

Imagine Delta blaming Muslims for their violent behavior causing a delay... It could never happen! We're not talking about El Al crew doing something stupid in an emergency, we're talking about a calculated decision by their PR team to throw frum people under the bus.

And they'll do it again and again until we stop flying on their metal. The amount of people getting all defensive on their behalf after their disgusting race-baiting is retch-inducing.

I'm not defending LY in any of these cases. They are absolutely wrong. But we constantly see the same breaking news across the media, but the massive difference is on what they focus and how they write the story. Like the recent Washington Post headline on the ISIS leader which was later pulled...?
Horror stories happen everywhere. But some get overly abscessed when there's anything to write on El Al.

Yehuda57 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:07:48 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 08:01:12 PM

I'm not defending LY in any of these cases. They are absolutely wrong. But we constantly see the same breaking news across the media, but the massive difference is on what they focus and how they write the story. Like the recent Washington Post headline on the ISIS leader which was later pulled...?
Horror stories happen everywhere. But some get overly abscessed when there's anything to write on El Al.

I'm well aware of the issue of media framing (see the interesting articles thread for my own take on that), but please find me another airline (or any major company) that engaged in such race-baiting against a minority group.

yandmk · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:10:15 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 07:53:06 PM

https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/10-quick-sunday-takes-whats-going-aviation-credit-deals-know/#El_Al_Tidbits_Goodbye_747_jumbos_hello_tiny_787-8s_onto_their_flagship_route

Also, once I mentioned the above link, did you notice "hello tiny 787-8s onto their flagship route."?
Without reading the following paragraphs, one can assume El Al is replacing their 747's with 787-8....

Searching out for the next year, he found 28 flights operated with this plane. To put that into perspective, El Al flies approximately 1300 flights annually on this route (CMIIW).

Yehuda25 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:17:37 PM »

Why would elal cancel a 32k settlement? They should be laughing all the way to the bank....

Yehuda57 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:22:55 PM »

Your op was that with the latest post Dan "lost it". My contention is that he is harsh on all airlines when deserved and his post was well within reason. He could very well be harsher on El Al than others, and that's his prerogative, but to choose *this* story to say *Dan* lost it, when you continue to book customers on an airline that purposefully maligned frum Jews... I don't know.

How much clearer can I be? Imagine Lufthansa - *as a PR strategy* - said "religious Jews were violent, delayed our flight, and caused us to divert." There would be a boycott quicker than you can gather a minyan on El Al. That frum Jews continue to fly El Al without them acknowledging what they did and the numerous times they've done it, apologizing and taking responsibility, is sad.

yandmk · « **Reply #26 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:24:16 PM »

Quote from: Yehuda25 on October 29, 2019, 08:17:37 PM

Why would elal cancel a 32k settlement? They should be laughing all the way to the bank....

Because they have some really crazy people running the airline. My guess is that they'll give it in the end, just want to get back (threaten) at the passenger/journalist that reported this.
Smart? Absolutely not.

yandmk · « **Reply #27 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:29:17 PM »

Quote from: Yehuda57 on October 29, 2019, 08:22:55 PM

Your op was that with the latest post Dan "lost it". My contention is that he is harsh on all airlines when deserved and his post was well within reason. He could very well be harsher on El Al than others, and that's his prerogative, but to choose *this* story to say *Dan* lost it, when you continue to book customers on an airline that purposefully maligned frum Jews... I don't know.

Again. Nothing wrong with reporting the story. It's mind-boggling to say the least. But the way he wrote it with the whole history introduction, was a bit wacky IMHO.

Yehuda57 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:38:16 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 08:29:17 PM

Again. Nothing wrong with reporting the story. It's mind-boggling to say the least. But the way he wrote it with the whole history introduction, was a bit wacky IMHO.

That's Dan's style. Every non deal post starts with tangents and back story. "My favorite game is Settlers of Catan, which is why, when my family and I spend Pesach in Palm Springs, we never miss an opportunity to stop in Montreal to visit La Gondola to have my favorite short ribs, even after getting delayed by AA in Miami. All this to say, I'm arranging a cruise to Antarctica. "

Dan · « **Reply #29 on:** October 29, 2019, 08:49:43 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 07:36:43 PM

Oh really! Can you send me links for 10% of that amount of negative coverage from the airline where he carries GS status? And no, United isn't rated 5 stars anywhere!

yandmk · « **Reply #30 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:17:51 PM »

Quote from: Dan on October 29, 2019, 08:49:43 PM

LOL!
Just a quick search on United from 2019 alone, far more negative coverage than LY. But you continue to harp every time someone attacks your precious.

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/american-delta-will-honor-lifetime-club-memberships-without-new-restrictions-united-still-plans-taking-low-road/

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/milespoints/united-kills-mileage-based-elite-status-credit-card-international-flight-spend-waiver/

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/milespoints/united-miles-no-longer-expire-good-news-wolf-sheeps-clothing/

https://www.dansdeals.com/airfare-deals/israel-flights/another-week-another-diverted-united-dreamliner-israel/

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/united-strands-passengers-cleveland-without-kosher-food-diverting-dreamliner-tel-aviv/

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/milespoints/thoughts-2-fascinating-mileage-credit-card-articles-wall-street-journal-chase-united-can-fix-problems/

https://www.dansdeals.com/credit-cards/heres-united-transformed-premium-club-card-hero-zero-worst-credit-card-devaluation-time/

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/milespoints/uniteds-elimination-close-award-booking-fees-devastating-news-unitedunfriendly-mileageminus/

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/united-copying-delta-goodbye-award-charts-close-fees-unitedunfriendly/

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/united/queen-hangar-united-express-embraer-170-diverted-6-times-past-2-weeks-13-times-past-3-months/

Everything's proportionate. If LY would have done the same amount of wreckage as UA did in the past year?
The massive UA devaluation is far more damaging that affects millions of people, compared to a story of El Al not accommodating an ill passenger and the Bachur who escorted her....

You aren't denying you're obsession with United, are you? (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=98699.msg2148397#msg2148397)
If you read my above comments, you'll see I'm not defending El Al in any way (I know more of their woes than you do - I deal with them more). They are acting really stupid in this case like in many other cases. But the temper tantrum style of the article made me wonder what happened today?

It's ok to be obsessed or bias with one airline over another. But Yehuda57 didn't seem to realize there's any bias.
Travel Agents are often naturally blinded by the higher commission LY offers. While bloggers are naturally blinded by the higher commission offered by Priceline. Have you ever mentioned that PL doesn't offer child discounts (sometimes very significant) on international flights like Expedia/Orbitz do? No. We are all human, and have a bias side. As long as we don't fool ourselves.

Dan · « **Reply #31 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:33:05 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 07:53:06 PM

Another example?
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/fly-uniteds-final-747-flight/
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/en-route-final-united-747-flight/
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/trip-notes/trip-notes-final-united-747-flight-2-days-maui/
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/milespoints/used-230000-united-miles-buy-piece-747/

And then:
https://www.dansdeals.com/more/dans-commentary/10-quick-sunday-takes-whats-going-aviation-credit-deals-know/#El_Al_Tidbits_Goodbye_747_jumbos_hello_tiny_787-8s_onto_their_flagship_route
No mention of this... https://www.elal.com/he/FrequentFlyer/Pages/hp/747-goodbye.aspx (I posted the details of this in another thread)

Obsession? Of course. And that's ok. I'm just not sure how you don't see it....

1. I run a US-centric blog.
2. United went all out in creating the ultimate party flight
3. United has a long tradition of maintaining their 747s, so people were sad when it left. People won't shed a tead for LY 747.
4. Did they even bother making a page in English about the last 747 flight?
5. Never saw that link until now.

Dan · « **Reply #32 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:36:43 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 09:17:51 PM

But the temper tantrum style of the article made me wonder what happened today?

It's as if you've never read a DD article or TR before. Certainly curious.

Others seem to appreciate the style and wrote to me...

Dan · « **Reply #33 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:40:06 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 09:17:51 PM

Everything's proportionate. If LY would have done the same amount of wreckage as UA did in the past year?

LY had the same wreckage if not worse as I outlined in the post that triggered you. If anything I didn't give LY enough negative coverage for the stealthy garbage they've pulled in 2019.

yandmk · « **Reply #34 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:46:03 PM »

Quote from: Dan on October 29, 2019, 09:33:05 PM

4. Did they even bother making a page in English about the last 747 flight?

It's from FCO to TLV, so not very relevant for English speakers. It was also sold out before they had a chance to translate. Business class was sold out within the first hour of it being publicized! But I'm sure they'll make sure Israeli (and all aviation) media is all over the story next Sunday.

Quote from: Dan on October 29, 2019, 09:33:05 PM

5. Never saw that link until now.

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=107429.msg2144575#msg2144575
I wasn't able to attach the full PDF, so I just attached some blury screenshots of it.

Dan · « **Reply #35 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:50:40 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 09:46:03 PM

It's from FCO to TLV, so not very relevant for English speakers. It was also sold out before they had a chance to translate. Business class was sold out within the first hour of it being publicized! But I'm sure they'll make sure Israeli (and all aviation) media is all over the story next Sunday.
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=107429.msg2144575#msg2144575
I wasn't able to attach the full PDF, so I just attached some blury screenshots of it.

And so what exactly is your question again?!?
I covered the UA 747 story because it was easily bookable for the 94% of DD readers that live in North America. And UA made a truly grand celebration for it.
I never knew about the LY flight page until now and it was never in English. Are there seats in any class still for sale?

yandmk · « **Reply #36 on:** October 29, 2019, 09:55:19 PM »

Quote from: Dan on October 29, 2019, 09:36:43 PM

It's as if you've never read a DD article or TR before. Certainly curious.

Others seem to appreciate the style and wrote to me...

I actually love your humorous style writing, too.
I laughed straight through articles like these:
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/airlines/airline-news/el-al-to-add-bed-like-seat-to-business-class-reupholster-first-class-seats-in-plastic/
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/marriott/marriott-rewards-will-renamed-marriott-bonvoy-big-enough-call-just-anything/
I just didn't see much humor in todays article. It was more attacking.

Quote from: Dan on October 29, 2019, 09:40:06 PM

LY had the same wreckage if not worse as I outlined in the post that triggered you. If anything I didn't give LY enough negative coverage for the stealthy garbage they've pulled in 2019.

2019? Sure. You went back to their HAS partnership....
It's alright. Nothing happened. Was just expressing surprise on the style of the article. Was not intended to be offensive.

yandmk · « **Reply #37 on:** October 29, 2019, 10:02:09 PM »

Quote from: Dan on October 29, 2019, 09:50:40 PM

And so what exactly is your question again?!?

I was under the impression you knew they were celebrating, and just chose not to mention that part just poking fun at their last USA flight "without fanfare"

Quote from: Dan on October 29, 2019, 09:50:40 PM

Are there seats in any class still for sale?

As of Erev Succos economy was full, but they were accepting waitlists, as they were expecting some cancellations. I believe all WL's cleared over the last weekend. I'm not sure if there's any seats currently available. Definitely not in J. Needed to be booked over the phone. Only with matmid points. No airport taxes were collected.

Yehuda57 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 29, 2019, 10:39:17 PM »

Quote from: yandmk on October 29, 2019, 09:17:51 PM

Everything's proportionate. If LY would have done the same amount of wreckage as UA did in the past year?
The massive UA devaluation is far more damaging that affects millions of people, compared to a story of El Al not accommodating an ill passenger and the Bachur who escorted her....

You aren't denying you're obsession with United, are you? (https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=98699.msg2148397#msg2148397)
If you read my above comments, you'll see I'm not defending El Al in any way (I know more of their woes than you do - I deal with them more). They are acting really stupid in this case like in many other cases. But the temper tantrum style of the article made me wonder what happened today?

It's ok to be obsessed or bias with one airline over another. But Yehuda57 didn't seem to realize there's any bias.
Travel Agents are often naturally blinded by the higher commission LY offers. While bloggers are naturally blinded by the higher commission offered by Priceline. Have you ever mentioned that PL doesn't offer child discounts (sometimes very significant) on international flights like Expedia/Orbitz do? No. We are all human, and have a bias side. As long as we don't fool ourselves.

I was responding to you saying Dan lost it (and now you're saying the post was a "tantrum"). I didn't say he has no bias against El Al, just that he does criticize other airlines plenty and his post was perfectly within reason.

Now you're comparing his coverage of a story about frum passengers, which is something his core readership is far more interested in, to general aviation stories? Come on.

Besides, no amount of tantrums can do justice to the outrage that El Al deserves for what they did. You have not provided an incident from any other airline or large company which comes remotely close.

yitzgar · « **Reply #39 on:** October 29, 2019, 11:13:06 PM »

Quote from: Yehuda57 on October 29, 2019, 08:38:16 PM

That's Dan's style. Every non deal post starts with tangents and back story. "My favorite game is Settlers of Catan, which is why, when my family and I spend Pesach in Palm Springs, we never miss an opportunity to stop in Montreal to visit La Gondola to have my favorite short ribs, even after getting delayed by AA in Miami. All this to say, I'm arranging a cruise to Antarctica. "

Alol