Author Topic: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh  (Read 4692 times)

Offline cmey

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2018, 12:53:25 AM »
There's definitely a lack of sufficient awareness to Ribbis issues. I don't know what happens with Credit Unions, and am not sure why they would be any different from a bank.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ckmk47

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2018, 01:02:43 AM »
What I'm understanding is that with a credit union, everyone participating in the CU becomes a shareholder - an owner.  So each Jewish customer is a Jewish owner and is lending and borrowing from Jews.
A bank is owned by an individual or corperation. When a Jew borrows money from that bank, they know it is non-Jewish owned, so they can borrow without any ribis issues. 

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2018, 01:09:32 AM »
What I'm understanding is that with a credit union, everyone participating in the CU becomes a shareholder - an owner.  So each Jewish customer is a Jewish owner and is lending and borrowing from Jews.
A bank is owned by an individual or corperation. When a Jew borrows money from that bank, they know it is non-Jewish owned, so they can borrow without any ribis issues.
The banks can and do have multiple shareholders, and many of them are Jews. How is it any different?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline a good yeshiva bachur

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2018, 01:56:05 AM »
didn't they solve this a few years back with quicken loans and the likes...??

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2018, 02:31:03 AM »
didn't they solve this a few years back with quicken loans and the likes...??
Someone got Dan Gilbert to sign a heter iska.
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Offline thaber

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2018, 02:58:09 AM »
didn't they solve this a few years back with quicken loans and the likes...??
*months.
Quicken loans is private.

Offline thaber

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2018, 03:02:38 AM »
The banks can and do have multiple shareholders, and many of them are Jews. How is it any different?
Banks voting power, and thereby halachic ownership is dependent on how much stock you own. Board members are paid, and don't have to be depository. Poskim differ if ownership or decision making authority define halachic ownership.

Credit union is one member one vote, regardless of how much each member has on deposit.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 03:03:44 AM »
What about a CU that requires you to be a Christian to become a member?
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Offline gingyguy

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2018, 10:27:03 AM »
What about a CU that requires you to be a Christian to become a member?
the problem is not the CU. its the CU that may have jewish members
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline mercaz1

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2018, 01:44:28 PM »
so if you have a loan from a CU then you must refi out of it?

Offline S209

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2018, 10:48:51 PM »
so if you have a loan from a CU then you must refi out of it?
I have loans out from Alliant Credit Union for me and DW, (the build your credit shtick that doesn’t work anymore). We also have deposits there as part of that trick.

I just contacted my Rav about this, will update.
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Offline ChaimMoskowitz

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2018, 10:50:29 PM »
If this gets moved to JS please ping me.  :)
I just found a new supply of forks!

Offline S209

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2018, 01:23:24 AM »
If this gets moved to JS please ping me.  :)
So to tomorrow, I guess ;)
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Offline S209

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Re: All credit union loans and other products are forbidden- kol koreh
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2018, 03:16:37 PM »
I have loans out from Alliant Credit Union for me and DW, (the build your credit shtick that doesn’t work anymore). We also have deposits there as part of that trick.

I just contacted my Rav about this, will update.
I spoke to R' Ari Marbuger in Lakewood about this, he's somewhat of an expert in Ribbis shaylos.

He told me that there are many poskim that feel it's more serious than a bank, and requires a heter iska, R' Dovid and R' Reuven Feinstein among them. R' Shlomo Miller, who signed the kol koreh, seems to have written a letter backtracking his psak, and there are many rabbanim that feel it's similar to a bank in regards to heter iska. He said if my loan is large and it's a big hefsed to refinance, I can be somech on those who say it's the same as a bank. However, because I only have the loan to build credit, and it wouldn't cost me alot of money to refinance and pull out our deposits, I will probably be doing so shortly, despite my credit taking a hit.
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