New Citi card - 2% CB

[Dan]

Capped at 6k
And only for GGG

Are you that bad at reading?

You get 1.5x with no cap everywhere.  If you're selling at 1.5-1.6 that's 2.25-2.4% everywhere with no cap.

[Matovu]

Are you that bad at reading?

You get 1.5x with no cap everywhere.  If you're selling at 1.5-1.6 that's 2.25-2.4% everywhere with no cap.

Im not bad at reading
but I'm bad at understanding how 1.5-1.6 is 2.25

and all I am saying is that instead of 1.5 cents I would be getting 2 cents

and I know you wrote a lot about it but...

[Dan]

Read it again
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/50312
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/50312#more-50312

"You earn 1.5 miles per dollar everywhere when you use your card 30 times in a month at a value of 1.6 cents per mile=2.4% earnings."

[Matovu]

Read it again
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/50312
http://www.dansdeals.com/archives/50312#more-50312

"You earn 1.5 miles per dollar everywhere when you use your card 30 times in a month at a value of 1.6 cents per mile=2.4% earnings."

fair enough.

[Dan]

How is that not better for you?

[Matovu]

How is that not better for you?

Dan,

let me try to explain myself
I'm terrible at grammer

I spend on the gold and platinum each month
then sell for 1.5

was thinking of spending on this citi
and instead of selling to get 2.0

now if this everyday card gives me 1.5 points instead of 1 point like the United Club card I have, then by all means I'm going to get it (I should if had this one already for months)
and "it is better for me"
but I wonder if Amex will let me downgrade one of my others and let me spend the volume they allow me to put on it now once it becomes an everyday preffered...

what do you say ?

[AnonymousUser]

Am I the only one who has CapitalOne Spark? (Yes, I know Everyday Preferred is better according to Dan's chesbon).

[menachem_m]

Correct though that hurts your credit score

I think there is a lot of hyperbole over here, and this has slowly grown to become a fact over the years.

Does using your card as intended (crazy huh?) and paying your balance when you get the bill, really hurt your score like a collection?
Or can we lower the rhetoric just a little bit, and say that it's not the most ideal way to have the very best credit you can possibly have, and for a churner it's a no-no.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great trick, which I use myself use. And for a grand cost of $0, and thirty seconds, it's a no brainer. It's also certainly a real factor to consider, when making your CC decisions.
But lets call a spade a spade, and acknowledge that this is merely a minor tweak/shtick which 99% of American do not employ, and does not hurt your score like a real negative.


P.S. I there was nothing in OP's post about abnormal spending, so I see no reason for you to assume that.

[Redbull3]

Cash Back on Payments: You will also earn 1% cash back on payments you make that appear on your current month's billing statement as long as the amount paid is at least the Minimum Payment Due that is printed on your billing statement and there is a balance in the Purchase Tracker. The balance in the Purchase Tracker is reduced by eligible payments you make. When the Purchase Tracker reaches $0, you won't earn cash back on payments until more eligible purchases are made.

This means that payments that offset purchases will earn the additional 1% (as opposed to payments that go towards late fees, interest, etc) - I don't see why you couldn't churn the CL.

[Dan]

I think there is a lot of hyperbole over here, and this has slowly grown to become a fact over the years.

Does using your card as intended (crazy huh?) and paying your balance when you get the bill, really hurt your score like a collection?
Or can we lower the rhetoric just a little bit, and say that it's not the most ideal way to have the very best credit you can possibly have, and for a churner it's a no-no.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great trick, which I use myself use. And for a grand cost of $0, and thirty seconds, it's a no brainer. It's also certainly a real factor to consider, when making your CC decisions.
But lets call a spade a spade, and acknowledge that this is merely a minor tweak/shtick which 99% of American do not employ, and does not hurt your score like a real negative.


P.S. I there was nothing in OP's post about abnormal spending, so I see no reason for you to assume that.

So most Americans have poor credit scores.
I have goofed and left a big balance on a card and watched my FICO plummet the next month.

This means that payments that offset purchases will earn the additional 1% (as opposed to payments that go towards late fees, interest, etc) - I don't see why you couldn't churn the CL.

Apparently only the unpaid balance from the statement go into the Purchase Tracker. Prepaid balances don't.
But I guess time will tell if that's the case for sure.

[Joe4007]

I think there is a lot of hyperbole over here, and this has slowly grown to become a fact over the years.

Does using your card as intended (crazy huh?) and paying your balance when you get the bill, really hurt your score like a collection?
Or can we lower the rhetoric just a little bit, and say that it's not the most ideal way to have the very best credit you can possibly have, and for a churner it's a no-no.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great trick, which I use myself use. And for a grand cost of $0, and thirty seconds, it's a no brainer. It's also certainly a real factor to consider, when making your CC decisions.
But lets call a spade a spade, and acknowledge that this is merely a minor tweak/shtick which 99% of American do not employ, and does not hurt your score like a real negative.


P.S. I there was nothing in OP's post about abnormal spending, so I see no reason for you to assume that.

Credit utilization accounts for approx. 30% of your FICO score, so yeah, I'd say it's a pretty big deal (although for short term only).

[NYHeel]

I agree. I think this is a straight 2% cash back card. I don't believe that paying off the balance before the statement closes has any impact to the amount of cash back that you receive.

Of course, whether you want that is another question. I do think that 2% cards like the Fidelity Amex have a place. For those that don't travel much or always buy coach well before the date of travel (like myself) the options are selling points/miles or getting a 2% card. If you're not comfortable selling points/miles that leaves getting a 2% card as your best option. Personally, I'm collecting Chase points for purposes of the short haul British Airways and United flights. Hopefully it will work out. But for standard purchases that won't earn double points or any bonus with another card, I plan on using the Fidelity Amex (which I already have) since I'd prefer not to sell my miles.

Also, in comparing the Barclay arrival vs. the Fidelity Amex, the Arrival gives you 2.22% vs. 2.00% from Fidelity. However, the Arrival has an $89 annual fee vs. $0 for the Fidelity Amex. To break even you'd need to have over $40K in spending which I don't especially if I'm going to use the Sapphire for all dining/travel purchases. Keep in mind I'm ignoring the upfront bonuses as they're irrelevant for everyday spending purposes. I also like to keep a few cards that I use going so as to be able to use the protections like extra year warranty which I can't do if I'm constantly closing card accounts.   

[Dan]

If it were straight 2% then why the funky language?
Why not just call it 2%?

"Cash Back on Payments:
-You will also earn 1% cash back on payments you make that appear on your current month’s billing statement as long as the amount paid is at least the Minimum Payment Due that is printed on your billing statement and there is a balance in the Purchase Tracker.
-The balance in the Purchase Tracker is reduced by eligible payments you make.
-When the Purchase Tracker reaches $0, you won’t earn cash back on payments until more eligible purchases are made."

[Dan]

Also, in comparing the Barclay arrival vs. the Fidelity Amex, the Arrival gives you 2.22% vs. 2.00% from Fidelity. However, the Arrival has an $89 annual fee vs. $0 for the Fidelity Amex. To break even you'd need to have over $40K in spending which I don't especially if I'm going to use the Sapphire for all dining/travel purchases. Keep in mind I'm ignoring the upfront bonuses as they're irrelevant for everyday spending purposes. I also like to keep a few cards that I use going so as to be able to use the protections like extra year warranty which I can't do if I'm constantly closing card accounts.   

Terrible calculation.
First of all why ignore the signup bonus?  Factor that into the breakeven spend.
Second of all the Arrival fee is waived the first year and supervisors are all too happy to waive it again/
Third of all it's churnable, so you can get the signup again and the fee waived again.

[sillypainter]

If it were straight 2% then why the funky language?
Why not just call it 2%?

"Cash Back on Payments:
-You will also earn 1% cash back on payments you make that appear on your current month’s billing statement as long as the amount paid is at least the Minimum Payment Due that is printed on your billing statement and there is a balance in the Purchase Tracker.
-The balance in the Purchase Tracker is reduced by eligible payments you make.
-When the Purchase Tracker reaches $0, you won’t earn cash back on payments until more eligible purchases are made."

Because they want to keep your money until it's paid. They don't want you to do a 100K charge, get a 2K check before they earned a dime on the transaction.

[ChaimMoskowitz]

If you want CB then go with a 5% card. Not sure what is so hard to understand.

[Dan]

Because they want to keep your money until it's paid. They don't want you to do a 100K charge, get a 2K check before they earned a dime on the transaction.

Maybe, maybe not.
Time will tell, but people have called reps and they were told that payments made before the statement will negate the bonus 1%.
Then again DROPR.

Either way there are better cards.

[Redbull3]

Apparently only the unpaid balance from the statement go into the Purchase Tracker. Prepaid balances don't.
But I guess time will tell if that's the case for sure.

Maybe, maybe not.
Time will tell, but people have called reps and they were told that payments made before the statement will negate the bonus 1%.
Then again DROPR.
Either way there are better cards.

This is probably just me not understanding the shtick but what do you mean prepaid? You were thinking that if you sent them a random payment when none was due that it would earn cash back? I am not super close to this product, but I was just saying I would think you can keep bringing your purchase tracker up by making new purchases - your credit limit is not restrictive.

As far as value, we all know you can maximize with other cards either by redeeming miles/points at better values, selling trips, or in some cases buying visa gc at 5x - but for those drawn to the simplicity of a straight CB card (not me and not DDF) it's a very rich value prop. Too rich, if you ask me.

[Dan]

No, I mean if you pay down your balance before your bill prints it seems questionable if you will get the extra 1% back for those purchases as it may never hit this "tracker" unless the bill closes with it unpaid.

[menachem_m]

So most Americans have poor credit scores.

Is that because they had a 30-40% utilization and everything else clean, or is there some part of the story that were not hearing? I'd suspect the later.

I have goofed and left a big balance on a card and watched my FICO plummet the next month.

Can you clarify what % it was. We're obviously not talking about abnormal spend.

Credit utilization accounts for approx. 30% of your FICO score, so yeah, I'd say it's a pretty big deal (although for short term only).

It can count for 99%. If your not doing anything wrong, so what?
I find it very hard to believe that FICO has set up a system that Joe Average, who has a perfectly clean score and spends 20-40% of his CL, would have his score tanked.

Then again, I could be wrong.