Eurovision: Eden Golan's October Rain/Hurricane In Malmo

[EliJelly]

No

I don't know about you but in my religion we have this concrete yesod that אומתינו בני ישראל אינה אומה אלא בתורותיה. You can try being melamed zechus on her being a tinok shnishba and that might be okay, but calling a non znius shabbos violating performance to represent a secular Israel "stood as a proud Jew, not a Jew with trembling knees" is utterly disgusting, and very sad that such a knee jerk not thought out observation made its way to the usually well respected DDMS. 

[Just A Jew]

I don't know about you but in my religion we have this concrete yesod that אומתינו בני ישראל אינה אומה אלא בתורותיה. You can try being melamed zechus on her being a tinok shnishba and that might be okay, but calling a non znius shabbos violating performance to represent a secular Israel "stood as a proud Jew, not a Jew with trembling knees" is utterly degusting, and very sad that such a knee jerk not thought out observation made its way to the usually well respected DDMS.

Their hate for her had nothing to do with her level of observance, and her pride in her identity, which you agree is a Jewess, regardless of her observance, is what she is being lauded for.

[EliJelly]

Their hate for her had nothing to do with her level of observance, and her pride in her identity, which you agree is a Jewess, regardless of her observance, is what she is being lauded for.

Perhaps we can agree on their hate. She was a proud Israeli, that was she represented, leave Judaism out of something which is just the opposite of it.

[ExGingi]

Perhaps we can agree on their hate. She was a proud Israeli, that was she represented, leave Judaism out of something which is just the opposite of it.

You know my position on Zionism. Can we agree that in today's day and age (non-Jewish) anti-Zionism is just plain old antisemitism?

And that is one of the reasons why it's important to refer to the #IslamoNazis of #HamasisISIS using those descriptive terms, because just like the German Nazis who didn't care about observence or even Halachic definition of Jews, the modern day #IslamoNazis murdered non-Jews for living in peace in a state that calls itself a Jewish state, regardless of any Torah or Halachic analysis.

[DaasTora]

You know my position on Zionism. Can we agree that in today's day and age (non-Jewish) anti-Zionism is just plain old antisemitism?

Perhaps we can agree on their hate.

[EliJelly]

You know my position on Zionism. Can we agree that in today's day and age (non-Jewish) anti-Zionism is just plain old antisemitism?

For the most part, yes. I don't see how this is relevant at all to our discussion about calling someone a proud Jew in such situation. Would you call a Gay Israeli standing proud in an international pride gathering against adversaries a proud Jew?

[ExGingi]

Judaism is a religion based race. Our identity is one with our religion. Unfortunately over the years in exile many people lost their religious observance. They remain Jews and we love them and hope for them to return. I don’t think there’s any “Jewish” pride in doing what she did. Jewish pride is strictly when doing “Jewish” things. For example putting on teffilin in face of antisemitism or similar things.

Can you point to a time in history when the majority of Jews were observant?

[EliJelly]

Can you point to a time in history when the majority of Jews were observant?

Up until Haskalah

[Dan]

The 2024 gap (323 from the public and 52 from juries) was unprecedented.

In 2023, Israel had 185 points from the public and 177 from juries.
In 2021, Israel had 20 points from the public and 70 from juries.
In 2018, Israel had 317 points from the public and 212 from juries, and took 1st place.
In 2017, Israel had 5 points from the public and 34 from juries.
In 2016, Israel had 11 points from the public and 124 from juries.

[Dan]

Perhaps we can agree on their hate. She was a proud Israeli, that was she represented, leave Judaism out of something which is just the opposite of it.

Read the note on top of the post. I specifically said I don't condone it.
That doesn't mean she's not proud of being a Jew that didn't back down in the face of hate.

[ExGingi]

For the most part, yes. I don't see how this is relevant at all to our discussion about calling someone a proud Jew in such situation. Would you call a Gay Israeli standing proud in an international pride gathering against adversaries a proud Jew?

I wouldn't. And I definitely wouldn't have called attention to it or advertised it (I didn't hold back on my opinion regarding the DDMS piece). That being said, we don't know or understand חשבונות שמים, and sometimes even in the darkest places the פינטעלע איד or the יחידה שבנפש shines. We never know where it could end. לעולם תהא שמאל דוחה וימין מקרבת.

[DaasTora]

Can you point to a time in history when the majority of Jews were observant?

Do you seriously disagree with the notion that Judaism revolves around observance?!

[Just A Jew]

Perhaps we can agree on their hate. She was a proud Israeli, that was she represented, leave Judaism out of something which is just the opposite of it.

They hate her because she's a Jew, representing a country whose identity worldwide, whether you agree with it or not, is one of a Jewish state. Her standing up in the face of that is taking pride in representing said Jewish state and Jewish identity.

I didn't say she should be a role model for your daughters. However, if there's a Jewish girl in Timbuktu who is inspired by her to stand up and say proudly, "I am a Jew," that's a positive thing. Who knows, maybe one day that little girl will decide to explore what it really means to be a Jew. You can accept people taking pride in their Jewishness without worrying about it desecrating your version of Judaism.

[CountValentine]

Thw 2024 gap (323 from the public and 52 from juries) was unprecedented.

In 2023, Israel had 185 points from the public and 177 from juries.
In 2021, Israel had 20 points from the public and 70 from juries.
In 2018, Israel had 317 points from the public and 212 from juries, and took 1st place.
In 2017, Israel had 5 points from the public and 34 from juries.
In 2016, Israel had 11 points from the public and 124 from juries.

Jury is 5 stuck up idiots. Public is millions and millions. I would be celebrating the massive positive from this.

[ExGingi]

Up until Haskalah

You, my dear friend, are ignorant of history.

וחמושים יצאו בני ישראל ממצרים. Even that far back it was 20% at best.

[CountValentine]

They hate her because she's a Jew, representing a country whose identity worldwide, whether you agree with it or not, is one of a Jewish state. Her standing up in the face of that is taking pride in representing said Jewish state and Jewish identity.

I didn't say she should be a role model for your daughters. However, if there's a Jewish girl in Timbuktu who is inspired by her to stand up and say proudly, "I am a Jew," that's a positive thing. Who knows, maybe one day that little girl will decide to explore what it really means to be a Jew. You can accept people taking pride in their Jewishness without worrying about it desecrating your version of Judaism.

Where is the outstanding emoji!!!

[DaasTora]

I wouldn't. And I definitely wouldn't have called attention to it or advertised it (I didn't hold back on my opinion regarding the DDMS piece). That being said, we don't know or understand חשבונות שמים, and sometimes even in the darkest places the פינטעלע איד or the יחידה שבנפש shines. We never know where it could end. לעולם תהא שמאל דוחה וימין מקרבת.

If she would cancel her chillul shabbos we would be applauding her all over for her פינטעלע איד!

[Just A Jew]

Do you seriously disagree with the notion that Judaism revolves around observance?!

Do you seriously disagree that being a Jew has nothing to do with observance?

[Dan]

Jury is 5 stuck up idiots. Public is millions and millions. I would be celebrating the massive positive from this.

5 idiots from each country. Who were all in on the fix because they didn't want to be associated politically with Israel or didn't want to cause a riot in the streets of Malmo.

[DaasTora]

Do you seriously disagree that being a Jew has nothing to do with observance?

Read my first post. https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=136285.msg2821917#msg2821917