Why is there so much lashon hora on here about restaurants (and other things)

[imayid2]

LH is only when it is damaging to someone’s business??

Such a type of LH, as in saying “x sells inferior merchandise”, is only LH because it damages his business.

[aygart]

So as noted, it’s because the info will be spread. Therefore there is an issur sipur. Doesn’t apply to us, because there is no issur sippur.

No there it requires apei tlasa and only according to that shita all to be matir only in the other city. According to the other opinions of apei tlasa it is forbidden even so.

[imayid2]

Only in a case where the listener feels it will be of benefit to him as stated in MC that the BMC is on. This is the case where it needs to be toeles for the listener. If it wasn't spoken litoeles then one may not listen even if there is toeles for the listener.

That’s talking about real gnai. In is case where it isn’t gnai, it’s only because it’s damaging, than if the reason why it isn’t ltoeles for you is bec you can’t be part of that, that would mean essentially that it isn’t LH for you.

[aygart]

Such a type of LH, as in saying “x sells inferior merchandise”, is only LH because it damages his business.

So why can't it be said in a different city where he doesn't sell?

[aygart]

That’s talking about real gnai. In is case where it isn’t gnai, it’s only because it’s damaging, than if the reason why it isn’t ltoeles for you is bec you can’t be part of that, that would mean essentially that it isn’t LH for you.

Source?

[shulem92]

A thought:

Let's say you had a bad experience at a restaurant, and you're not 100% sure whether a negative review is allowed under the circumstances. Maybe you're not 100% sure whether the restaurant burns everyone's food or if they just messed up your order, or maybe you're not sure if your motivation is really 100% to save everyone else from patronizing the restaurant, or if there's at least a bit of a desire to just rant about the situation, get back at the restaurant for ripping you off, or earn some likes on DDF (gotta feed the family, after all).

If you're not sure, I'd say we should consider the risk of going wrong with either choice:

• If you don't post a negative review, and it turns out that it was really muttar: It's possible that you gave up the opportunity to save innocent people from spending their hard-earned money at this horrible restaurant. Are you saving them any money? Probably not. Guy still needs to eat, he'll likely read your bad review, and then go to the other restaurant down the block and spend the same money there for a better experience. So by posting your review, you save people from a subpar experience and instead get them a great experience. By being machmir, you run the risk of letting them experience the subpar dining option.*
• If you do post a negative review, and and it turns out that it was really assur: If you have a large enough reach, you've potentially ruined the proprietor's livelihood shelo al pi din, or at least impacted it detrimentally in some way. That impact can last for years- bad rumors spread quickly, and once it's out there, there's no taking it back. (This is aside form the actual issurim of lashon harah that you transgressed.)
  

Which would you choose? To me, the risk just doesn't seem worthwhile.

Thoughts?


*This thought specifically about restaurants. Obviously this doesn't apply where people will actually lose money, like if someone is raising money for a bad investment, or charging for a service that's objectively not performed properly.

Besides for the issue of people maybe not being 100% to save the other guy, and no ulterior motives, I would also like to point out that toeles for the possible future (meaning it wasn’t a question relevant to right now) is assur (BMC 4 16)

[imayid2]

So why can't it be said in a different city where he doesn't sell?

The BMC explicitly explains that by saying it you can potentially cause him great damage. This does not apply to us, there is a heter regardless on the sippur. Your reading it does nothing.

[imayid2]

Source?

For which point?

That’s what the problem with saying “x has inferior merchandise” is. Do you dispute that?

[imayid2]

Besides for the issue of people maybe not being 100% to save the other guy, and no ulterior motives, I would also like to point out that toeles for the possible future (meaning it wasn’t a question relevant to right now) is assur (BMC 4 16)

It is always “right now”, for people who want to eat there today.

[aygart]

The BMC explicitly explains that by saying it you can potentially cause him great damage. This does not apply to us, there is a heter regardless on the sippur. Your reading it does nothing.

He writes that about repeating it in the city he is located IIRC

[aygart]

For which point?

That’s what the problem with saying “x has inferior merchandise” is. Do you dispute that?

To make the distinction between types of genai

[imayid2]

He writes that about repeating it in the city he is located IIRC

I’m losing track of exactly what you’re trying to show from there, so leaving it for now

[shulem92]

It is always “right now”, for people who want to eat there today.

that’s for the people reading it. What about the one saying it? That’s like saying I can go make a public announcement that ploni is a mamzer, cuz maybe people will do a shidduch with him. “It’s always nogea for when they are finding out shidduch information…”

[imayid2]

To make the distinction between types of genai

What is the LH involved in telling someone that x is selling inferior merchandise? Do you claim that it would be LH even when that would 100% not cause any damage?

Source?

[shulem92]

What is the LH involved in telling someone that x is selling inferior merchandise? Do you claim that it would be LH even when that would 100% not cause any damage?

Source?

There is possibly a distinction between selling inferior merchandise and cooking bad food

[imayid2]

that’s for the people reading it. What about the one saying it? That’s like saying I can go make a public announcement that ploni is a mamzer, cuz maybe people will do a shidduch with him. “It’s always nogea for when they are finding out shidduch information…”

I believe the Halacha is that we announce that a person is a mamzer by the Bris.

I really don’t think your source is a good analogy for our discussion. There are always people who’d like to know about said restaurant.

[imayid2]

There is possibly a distinction between selling inferior merchandise and cooking bad food

I don’t see much of a difference. Perhaps depends how it’s worded. My OP said

doesn’t make great food

You’d think badly of someone as a person for making mediocre food?

[aygart]

What is the LH involved in telling someone that x is selling inferior merchandise? Do you claim that it would be LH even when that would 100% not cause any damage?

Source?

What about kabalah? Do you feel you are allowed to be mik as bel if here

[imayid2]

What about kabalah? Do you feel you are allowed to be mik as bel if here

Interesting question. The other guy cannot be mekabel. Perhaps you can. Fascinating. Need to think about that.

[aygart]

Interesting question. The other guy cannot be mekabel. Perhaps you can. Fascinating. Need to think about that.

Is he allowed to tell it to you?