Author Topic: Genealogist?  (Read 24519 times)

Offline good sam

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2020, 01:04:46 AM »
JewishGen is the place for you. Post on one of their boards. They are full of experienced and helpful genealogists, professional and amateur.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2020, 01:45:55 PM »
Can some please help me read the name of the friend and his address on line 17?
I'm not a genealogist, but went through something similar when searching my own family history. 

As mentioned above, the name you show (from the ships register) looks like Mattes Dornblum. 

A search in ancestry.com shows a Mathias Dornblum who lived at 141 Goerck Street in the 1920 US census.  Going back now to the ships register, it seems like the street listed could have been Georg St, perhaps reflecting the different accents and spelling abilities of the people communicating.  It's generally easier to figure out handwriting if you look at the entire page, and try to find similar-looking letters within words that are more clear, but it seems likely that Goerck was meant.  Goerck Street was on the Lower East Side, but was destroyed and built over in the 1950s.

Perhaps the Dornblums first lived at 139 then moved next door to 141.   Dornblum is the last apartment listed at 141 Goerck, and the next line starts with the Klein family at 139 Goerck, so perhaps the census enumerator mistakenly entered the incorrect house number.

This Mathias Dornblum was 55 years old, as was his wife Lena.  Mathias said he had arrived in America from Russia in 1908, his son Max  in 1909, and his wife and daughter Bluma in 1912.   Interestingly, on the day of the 1920 census, there is also a granddaughter living with them, 2 1/2 year old Annie, who had been born in Connecticut.  Max (25 yo) and Bluma (19 yo) are both single, so it is not clear from this document what was going on there.  Mathias and Max worked as finishers in the manufacture of cloaks (coats), while Bluma made wigs for dolls.

The Dornblums had 2 men living with them as "lodgers" (boarders).  They were also working in Cloaks, as sewing machine operators, and had immigrated from Russia in 1913.  Their names were Ab. Goldman (30 yo) and Charles Schmulger (23 yo).  Is one of these the name of your ancestor?  What is the date of the ships manifest where you found this name?

There had been a NYS census in 1925, and in that year, Joseph, Lena, Bluma and Anna Dornblum were living in Nassau, in Rennselaer County in upstate NY.  I suspect that Joseph is the same person, Mattes.  East European Jews often had two names, a Hebrew and Yiddish one, and used only the Yiddish name or nickname in Europe.  They often changed names several times in America.


In the 1930 US census, Joseph Dornblum says he's a farmer.
In 1931, Bluma Minnie Dornblum married Joe Nudleman (later Needleman)

Looking at the ships register at immigration, there are several immigrants who might be this same family:
Jossel Dornblum, arrived 1909, 40 yo, from Wolchocz, Russia
Lea Durenblum, arrived 1912, 60 yo, from Wocbotzk, Russia
Bluma Durenblum, arrived 1912 (with Lea), 9 yo.

Jewishgen.com  has a "town finder", where you can insert these town names, and they will come up with the location.  This search can be made fuzzier, to find a town that might have been pronounced or spelled differently.  But if this was a friend of your ancestor, you might already know which town they came from.  Does it sound something like Wol...k?

Offline biobook

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2020, 10:02:47 PM »
Here's a bit more about the town that Mattes Dornblum came from.  The town name appears in several sources:

Wolchocz, when Jossel (Mattes, Mathias) immigrated, 1909
Wocbotzk, at Lea and Bluma's immigration, 1912
Wochocki, when Hersch Dornblum immigrated, 1913.  Hersch said he is going to his uncle, Mottes Dornblum, who then lived at 139 George Str.

But as time passes, they give their origin as Radom:
Mattes' son Max Dormblum registered for the WWI draft  in 1918.  He gave his own address as 143 Goerck St, and said that his nearest relative was his father, Joseph Dormblum, who lived at 141 Goerck St.  He said that he was born on Dec 22, 1896 in "Rodum, Russia"

Eight years later, Max petitioned for citizenship.  Giving the same birth date, but now calling himself Meyer (probably the name he had given at immigration), he said that he had been born in "Radum, Russia". 

In 1897, the town of Radom (or Rudem in Yiddish) had over 11,000 Jews, and was in the Radom district, which was in the province called Radom.  (Much like New York City is in New York County in New York State.)  There was a small town in this district called Wąchock [Polish], Vonkhotzk [Russian], Vonchotzk [Yiddish] and this might be their town of origin.  In the 1897 census, there were 638 Jews living there, so a really small town.  Probably nobody had heard of it, and so after being in America for a while, it is not surprising that they would just give the general region when asked for their birth place, rather than the specific town.

The granddaughter of Mattes who I mentioned in the previous post belonged to this son, Max/Meyer.  He had married Fannie Katz, had a daugther Anna, after which Fannie died, divorced or deserted.  He remarried to Sadie, and had a second daughter Sylvia.  The 1930 census shows Myer, Sadie, Anna and Sylvia living in Brooklyn.

This is probably much more than you wanted to know, but maybe you'll find a tidbit of interest in it that might relate to your own family history.



Offline good sam

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2020, 12:59:17 AM »
Here's a bit more about the town that Mattes Dornblum came from.  The town name appears in several sources:

Wolchocz, when Jossel (Mattes, Mathias) immigrated, 1909
Wocbotzk, at Lea and Bluma's immigration, 1912
Wochocki, when Hersch Dornblum immigrated, 1913.  Hersch said he is going to his uncle, Mottes Dornblum, who then lived at 139 George Str.

But as time passes, they give their origin as Radom:
Mattes' son Max Dormblum registered for the WWI draft  in 1918.  He gave his own address as 143 Goerck St, and said that his nearest relative was his father, Joseph Dormblum, who lived at 141 Goerck St.  He said that he was born on Dec 22, 1896 in "Rodum, Russia"

Eight years later, Max petitioned for citizenship.  Giving the same birth date, but now calling himself Meyer (probably the name he had given at immigration), he said that he had been born in "Radum, Russia". 

In 1897, the town of Radom (or Rudem in Yiddish) had over 11,000 Jews, and was in the Radom district, which was in the province called Radom.  (Much like New York City is in New York County in New York State.)  There was a small town in this district called Wąchock [Polish], Vonkhotzk [Russian], Vonchotzk [Yiddish] and this might be their town of origin.  In the 1897 census, there were 638 Jews living there, so a really small town.  Probably nobody had heard of it, and so after being in America for a while, it is not surprising that they would just give the general region when asked for their birth place, rather than the specific town.

The granddaughter of Mattes who I mentioned in the previous post belonged to this son, Max/Meyer.  He had married Fannie Katz, had a daugther Anna, after which Fannie died, divorced or deserted.  He remarried to Sadie, and had a second daughter Sylvia.  The 1930 census shows Myer, Sadie, Anna and Sylvia living in Brooklyn.

This is probably much more than you wanted to know, but maybe you'll find a tidbit of interest in it that might relate to your own family history.
Nice work!
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Offline yelped

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2020, 01:16:20 AM »
Wow. @biobook that is really impressive and really nice of you to put in so much work.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2020, 12:17:55 AM »
Slightly unusual idea, but if you know someone in a post office, you might want to see if they can help. The USPS has software that could read pretty much any handwriting.
except for mine
["-"]

Offline srap

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2020, 12:40:55 AM »

...

This is probably much more than you wanted to know, but maybe you'll find a tidbit of interest in it that might relate to your own family history.
Wow is right!! VERY impressive, especially when it is not even your family.

Offline biobook

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2020, 12:11:24 PM »
I enjoy the intellectual puzzle, trying to figure things out, piece together evidence from different sources to reach a conclusion, if only a somewhat tentative one.

In some ways it's more satisfying to research the history of someone else's family.  With my own family, I had to contend with various relatives who didn't believe what I found, or didn't want to accept my conclusions, or, more often, simply weren't interested.  It's not clear whether ElectricCPR is interested either, but at least I don't have to meet him at future family events!

Offline ElectricCPR

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2020, 10:23:44 PM »
I really appreciate all the info you provided. My Great Grandfather was Chil (Yechiel Boruch) Stender under the legal name Bennie (Benjamin) Stender. He boarded by Mattias for a few years before he got married. I wanted to show the family some Hakoras Hatov for bringing my Great Grandfather to this country! Now the game is to find a Living Relative!

Offline biobook

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2020, 12:03:23 PM »
Here's a more complete answer:
Mattes Dornblum IS the same person as Joseph Dornblum.  Joseph/Mattes and his son Max/Meyer and family are all buried in the Mount Hebron Cemetery in Queens.  There's a photo of Meyer's matzeiva online, and it gives his name as
נתן מאיר בר יוסף מתתיה הכהן
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77475262/meyer-dornblum
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2017/49/77475262_1487546472.jpg

In Europe, he was known as Mattes (based on the name his friend and nephew gave for the ships manifest when they immigrated) or Jossel (based on name he himself gave at immigration).  In the 1910 census, he gave his name as Max and his son as Nathan! In the 1920 census, he is Matthias and his son is Max.  In the 1930 census and thereafter, he is Joseph and his son is Meyer.

Joseph/Mattes and his wife Lena/Lea had two children who lived with them in America. 
Meyer/Nathan/Max (1896-1978) and Bluma (1902-1982).

Joseph/Mattes arrived first, in 1909, his son Meyer arrived in 1910 (under the name Nussem Dernblum on the ships manifest - probably Nussen)  and Lea/Lena arrived with Bluma in 1912. This kind of "chain migration" was common among poor Russian Jews - The father would go first, save money for a ticket for the next person, and so on.  So they were probably not well-to-do.  Joseph/Mattes said he was a tailor, and he may well have worked in that profession in Russia.  However, Russian Jews knew that workers were needed in clothing manufacture, so many called themselves tailor when they immigrated.

Meyer/Max married Fannie Katz and had a daughter Ann (1917-2007).  Fannie died the following year, in October 1918.  I haven't looked for her death certificate, but October 1918 is famous for having had the peak deaths of the 1918 flu pandemic, when 195,000 Americans died from that cause.  Maybe she was one of the victims. 

Meyer/Max moved back with Annie, to live with his parents and Bluma, and was there in the 1920 census when Annie was 2 years old.  However, he remarried, to Sadie Espass, soon after that census, and had two more daughters:  Sylvia (1921-2013) and Pearl (1930-2000).  Pearl shortened the name to Dorn, and Sylvia's name was always Dornblum, so it seems that neither of them ever married, and had no children.  Sylvia's obit says:
DORNBLUM--Sylvia. May 8, 1921 - May 2nd, 2013. Loved by her friends. Services Sunday at 12 noon from Schwartz Bros. Jeffer Memorial Chapel, 114-03 Queens Blvd., Forest Hills, NY. Interment at Mt. Hebron Cemetery alongside her beloved sister Pearl.

Anne Dornblum also seems to have never married and had no children, so there are no descendants from Meyer/Max. 

But Joseph/Mattes' daughter Bluma does have living descendants. 
In 1925 and 1930, Joseph and Lena, with their daughter Bluma, lived in East Nassau, in Rennselaer County NY.  This is a rural area, and perhaps they moved there to try their hand at farming, which was a thing to do back then.  In 1925 Joseph said he was a tailor, but in the 1930 census, he said "farmer".  Lena died in 1932, and is buried in Queens.  I haven't found where Joseph lived after this date, but he was buried in Queens in 1948.

In 1931, Bluma married Joseph Nudleman (1892-1966), and by the 1940 census, they were living in Port Jervis NY with their two children, Eleanor and Seymour, AND their niece, Ann/Annie/Anna Dornblum. 

It's in Ann Dornblum's obituary (2007) that you can find the names of Bluma and Joseph's descendants, Eleanor and Seymour, who were Ann's cousins, as well as their children and grandchildren.   That would be the place to start looking for living descendants!
https://grayparkerfuneralhome.com/tribute/details/16/Ann-Dornblum/obituary.html

Offline good sam

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2020, 12:57:55 PM »
Here's a more complete answer:
Mattes Dornblum IS the same person as Joseph Dornblum.  Joseph/Mattes and his son Max/Meyer and family are all buried in the Mount Hebron Cemetery in Queens.  There's a photo of Meyer's matzeiva online, and it gives his name as
נתן מאיר בר יוסף מתתיה הכהן
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/77475262/meyer-dornblum
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2017/49/77475262_1487546472.jpg

In Europe, he was known as Mattes (based on the name his friend and nephew gave for the ships manifest when they immigrated) or Jossel (based on name he himself gave at immigration).  In the 1910 census, he gave his name as Max and his son as Nathan! In the 1920 census, he is Matthias and his son is Max.  In the 1930 census and thereafter, he is Joseph and his son is Meyer.

Joseph/Mattes and his wife Lena/Lea had two children who lived with them in America. 
Meyer/Nathan/Max (1896-1978) and Bluma (1902-1982).

Joseph/Mattes arrived first, in 1909, his son Meyer arrived in 1910 (under the name Nussem Dernblum on the ships manifest - probably Nussen)  and Lea/Lena arrived with Bluma in 1912. This kind of "chain migration" was common among poor Russian Jews - The father would go first, save money for a ticket for the next person, and so on.  So they were probably not well-to-do.  Joseph/Mattes said he was a tailor, and he may well have worked in that profession in Russia.  However, Russian Jews knew that workers were needed in clothing manufacture, so many called themselves tailor when they immigrated.

Meyer/Max married Fannie Katz and had a daughter Ann (1917-2007).  Fannie died the following year, in October 1918.  I haven't looked for her death certificate, but October 1918 is famous for having had the peak deaths of the 1918 flu pandemic, when 195,000 Americans died from that cause.  Maybe she was one of the victims. 

Meyer/Max moved back with Annie, to live with his parents and Bluma, and was there in the 1920 census when Annie was 2 years old.  However, he remarried, to Sadie Espass, soon after that census, and had two more daughters:  Sylvia (1921-2013) and Pearl (1930-2000).  Pearl shortened the name to Dorn, and Sylvia's name was always Dornblum, so it seems that neither of them ever married, and had no children.  Sylvia's obit says:
DORNBLUM--Sylvia. May 8, 1921 - May 2nd, 2013. Loved by her friends. Services Sunday at 12 noon from Schwartz Bros. Jeffer Memorial Chapel, 114-03 Queens Blvd., Forest Hills, NY. Interment at Mt. Hebron Cemetery alongside her beloved sister Pearl.

Anne Dornblum also seems to have never married and had no children, so there are no descendants from Meyer/Max. 

But Joseph/Mattes' daughter Bluma does have living descendants. 
In 1925 and 1930, Joseph and Lena, with their daughter Bluma, lived in East Nassau, in Rennselaer County NY.  This is a rural area, and perhaps they moved there to try their hand at farming, which was a thing to do back then.  In 1925 Joseph said he was a tailor, but in the 1930 census, he said "farmer".  Lena died in 1932, and is buried in Queens.  I haven't found where Joseph lived after this date, but he was buried in Queens in 1948.

In 1931, Bluma married Joseph Nudleman (1892-1966), and by the 1940 census, they were living in Port Jervis NY with their two children, Eleanor and Seymour, AND their niece, Ann/Annie/Anna Dornblum. 

It's in Ann Dornblum's obituary (2007) that you can find the names of Bluma and Joseph's descendants, Eleanor and Seymour, who were Ann's cousins, as well as their children and grandchildren.   That would be the place to start looking for living descendants!
https://grayparkerfuneralhome.com/tribute/details/16/Ann-Dornblum/obituary.html
Nothing like solving genealogy puzzles!

Do you have any particular expertise in Europe?

My father's family comes from Poland. I've put together an incredible tree going back nine generations in some cases with the help of jri-poland.org and some other resources. The line I've had the most difficulty with is my direct paternal line. Even with some minimal personal information regarding names going back five generations, I've been unable to document a path in the public records, partially I think because it's a very common surname. (An uncommon surname is a major advantage in genealogical research.)

My mother's family is from Czechoslovakia. I've found this to be much more challenging. I've only been able to find a small handful of matches on JewishGen and those haven't built any bridges to more information. Luckily my private information on this side of the family is more robust, otherwise I'd have nothing.

Anyway, just wondering if you had any ideas for an amateur with some basic research experience.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2020, 02:57:03 PM »
Nine generations!  I am much more of an amateur than you!  My family came from Russia, the region now called Belarus, in the early 1900s, and lived on the Lower East Side, Newark, and Paterson NJ.  I've been researching them for the past year. 

I did try a few searches via jewishgen, but just got far enough to convince myself that the family names existed in that region of Russia.  I wasn't able to add any names to my tree, but can't say that I tried very hard. 

What I've been doing instead is trying to flesh out the picture of their lives in America, where they lived, where they went to school, what kind of work they did.  I've found some tidbits in old newspapers, either using proquest (in a library) or chroniclingamerica.loc.gov which has newspapers before 1963.

But I wouldn't know where to start with the questions you have.

Offline good sam

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2020, 01:43:12 AM »
Nine generations!  I am much more of an amateur than you!  My family came from Russia, the region now called Belarus, in the early 1900s, and lived on the Lower East Side, Newark, and Paterson NJ.  I've been researching them for the past year. 

I did try a few searches via jewishgen, but just got far enough to convince myself that the family names existed in that region of Russia.  I wasn't able to add any names to my tree, but can't say that I tried very hard. 

What I've been doing instead is trying to flesh out the picture of their lives in America, where they lived, where they went to school, what kind of work they did.  I've found some tidbits in old newspapers, either using proquest (in a library) or chroniclingamerica.loc.gov which has newspapers before 1963.

But I wouldn't know where to start with the questions you have.
Do you do any work on Geni.com?
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Offline good sam

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2020, 01:50:28 AM »
I found a the passenger manifest of my grandparents ship to the US, and it mention as a relative a uncle with a nam and address. I never knew this person existed. Any ideas how to search for records of residents of a specific address? It's in the Bronx and the dicument was in 1938.
I have found someone in the 1930 and 1940 census who might match, however the address is different than the 1938 document. Any suggestions for finding old phone books for NYC  online?
Did you ever figure this out? We now have a specialist on DDF in this area called @biobook
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Offline username

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2020, 02:33:58 PM »
I have found someone in the 1930 and 1940 census who might match, however the address is different than the 1938 document. Any suggestions for finding old phone books for NYC  online?
Try here. seems like its not only Brooklyn.

https://archive.org/details/brooklynpubliclibrary?&sort=titleSorter&page=2

ETA.

Here is manhattan 1940
https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/76112f90-97e4-0135-b4a4-5b8e9092cb84
^^^

Offline Ellen

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2020, 01:46:11 PM »
Was interested in researching family.
Started on JewishGen and actually found a LOT of records.
I'm up to approx 1820's and am sort of hitting a dead end.

Any other sites with lots of Jewish records from about 200 years ago+ ?

Offline good sam

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2020, 03:20:33 PM »
Was interested in researching family.
Started on JewishGen and actually found a LOT of records.
I'm up to approx 1820's and am sort of hitting a dead end.

Any other sites with lots of Jewish records from about 200 years ago+ ?
What areas are you searching?
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Offline Ellen

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2020, 04:36:46 PM »
What areas are you searching?
Carpathian Region
It is now Ukraine, but was part of Austo-Hungary/Czechoslovakia, etc thoughout the years...
It is possible that either a) there were no records yet at that time (although i find this unlikely. Rather i think it's not transcribed yet/I haven't found them yet.) or b) the family moved there from somewhere else during that time.
Any leads would be helpful.

Offline good sam

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2020, 05:02:16 PM »


Carpathian Region
It is now Ukraine, but was part of Austo-Hungary/Czechoslovakia, etc thoughout the years...
It is possible that either a) there were no records yet at that time (although i find this unlikely. Rather i think it's not transcribed yet/I haven't found them yet.) or b) the family moved there from somewhere else during that time.
Any leads would be helpful.

Good luck. I'm glad you found what you found, I've had very little luck in subcarpathia.

Polish records seem to be more plentiful and easier to search.

Can you tell me what cities/towns you are searching?

Have you connected to the geni.com world tree? It's collaborative and I wouldn't be surprised if others have already done the research you are trying to do. I'm happy to help you get started if you haven't.
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Offline Ellen

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Re: Genealogist?
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2020, 05:07:53 PM »

Good luck. I'm glad you found what you found, I've had very little luck in subcarpathia.

Polish records seem to be more plentiful and easier to search.

Can you tell me what cities/towns you are searching?

Have you connected to the geni.com world tree? It's collaborative and I wouldn't be surprised if others have already done the research you are trying to do. I'm happy to help you get started if you haven't.

Whatever i found so far was by searching on JewishGen without specifying town. Once i got the results according to name, i narrowed it down manually by reading through the records and seeing if the towns matched to the info i know about the family.