Is It "Wrong" To Post Turkish Air Deals?

[DMYD]

yes,  if you agree with this person or not

So the poll should say Should a great deal from Turkish air be posted and would you travel with them?

[davidd75]

So you're saying you are indirectly and unintentionally helping hamas by buying a Turkish flight so it's fine?

You must have misunderstood me.  I was responding to a previous comment made that Israel may be indirectly support Hamas.  My response followed which pointed out a key difference.  So what I meant was that its a lot of worse  to contribute to a Turkish government that intentionally supports and aids hamas monetarily than a case where the monies end up in hamas hands unintentionally.  Where did you get the idea that I meant 'its fine."

[12HRS]

By this guys logic, he won't buy gas either? no way some of that money doesn't end up in terrorist hands.

[Mordy788]

Turkish Airlines has won many awards for their product, they have good prices, and they fly safe western aircraft through a safe western city.

This is a political issue which can be started with almost any company that you might do business with. In my opinion, it is healthy to separate the two and have discussions in the forum about a deal or Turkish Airlines.

[shtank]

By this guys logic, he won't buy gas either? no way some of that money doesn't end up in terrorist hands.

+1
As I have discussed a few times on this forum, everyone has the right to exercise their own judgment and moral prerogatives. However, I personally don't see anything wrong with flying Turkish considering their prices in general are among the cheapest. I have never seen a complaint about how they treat Jews. They are minority owned by Turkey's government (yes, Turkey makes money off of them but Turkey basically has very little say in how they run their business - at least direct say). You may ask "well, why be cheap when you may be helping terrorists?" Here is my answer: Everything we buy potentially ends up in the hands of bad people somewhere. As said above, gasoline money inevitably ends up in the hands of terrorists. The U.S. Government also gives money to Hamas. The reason anyone has more of a sensitivity to Turkey is that Turkey is a basically Islamic country with a president who openly hates Israel. This a) makes it feel like they are closer to Hamas ideologically and b)"feels wrong" because it feels like giving money to people we don't like.  If you are a person who feels this way, then the first thing to realize is that this is political rather than financial. You aren't worried about supporting terrorism as much as you are worried about feeling bad about using the services of an entity you politically "hate". Now, there is nothing wrong with this sentiment. People still don't buy German cars for basically this same reason (the difference being a temporal one). That's fine. But this brings me to my next point. Many people have at least a loose budget within which they are able to operate. If Turkish is charging 600 or 700 dollars a ticket, and the next cheapest airline is charging 900, then if you go with the next cheapest airline with even one other person (wife or someone else) then you are talking at least a 400-600 dollar difference in what you would pay. If you go with a family, it is obviously much more. These figures are significant for most people, especially ones trying to finagle an extra 10k UR points by reading tips on this forum. Now, for those who opt to not fly with Turkish, some people will opt to not go on the trip at all because of the price difference and some will opt to go, but will have to cut back somewhere else (likely spending money on the trip) and, I believe, only a small number of people will go on the trip and spend exactly the same as they would have regardless of how much the airfare costs. This means that most people, while choosing to politically pull support from Turkey, will financially be pulling support from the Israeli economy. This means that out of principal, you are doing something that in a real way hurts Jews and/or Israel (financially). This is basically bad prioritization. Trust me, Jews in Israel need financial support. Every bit helps. Turkey will hate us and contribute the same money to Hamas/Palestinians whether Chassidim have a minyan in Ataturk Airport or not. So what are you accomplishing by not flying Turkish? Feeling better about yourself at the expense of Jews in Israel? I just don't see how that makes any sense. As I said, the choice to fly with them is yours, but at least make certain that you will spend the same amount of money you would have spent in Israel whether you fly with them or not.

[davidd75]

By this guys logic, he won't buy gas either? no way some of that money doesn't end up in terrorist hands.

who's logic?

[12HRS]

who's logic?

the person emailing dan.

[mercaz1]

you don't think employees of Sodastream are giving money to terrorists? either by directly supporting them or by supporting the economy of the west bank and gaza and then through trickle down to hamas- this logic is never ending

[Redbull3]

By this guys logic, he won't buy gas either? no way some of that money doesn't end up in terrorist hands.

you don't think employees of Sodastream are giving money to terrorists? either by directly supporting them or by supporting the economy of the west bank and gaza and then through trickle down to hamas- this logic is never ending

You guys are taking his "if even a penny..." claim too literally. Obviously in our interconnected global economy you can't practically prevent a penny of yours ending up in terrorists' hands, but the point is to minimize the support. Would you lend hamas money if they gave you a favorable interest rate? I assume not. Lending Hamas money would be on the far extreme of a continuum, with buying gas on the opposite side. A line should be drawn somewhere in between these 2 extremes.

[meshugener]

From my inbox,

"Hey Dan, I follow your site diligently for deal, airfare, mileage, etc. I frequently benefit from the deals you post on flights to Israel.

I wanted to drop you a line about deals you post for flights on Turkish Airlines. While I fully advocate you posting the deals and letting people make their own decisions, there's the small matter of what your personal responsibility is to give people all the facts. As someone who is outwardly Jewish and shomer shabbos, do you not owe it to your readers, many of whom are unwitting to disclose Turkish Airlines direct connection to Hamas terrorism? Namely:
Just under 50% of Turkish Airlines is owned by the Turkish Government (the rest is publicly traded). Turkey is a very public supporter of Hamas (see http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/04/hamas_s_bffs_turkey_qatar_israel_gaza... other articles available upon request). Further, Turkey is known to fund Hamas to the tune of $200-$300 million annually.
If even a penny of the money Turkish Airlines makes off of the fare goes to fund Hamas, that's something I for one would have an issue with, for the sake of saving money on a flight to Israel. The irony of funding terrorism in order to visit the nation most affected by it is obvious.

I was actually considering flying on Turkish to Israel in March. I mentioned this to a friend who is a prominent executive at Air Canada who pointed out most of the above.

Interested in hearing your thoughts as to what, if any, responsibility you feel is yours."

Holy moly.


"Hey Dan, I follow your site diligently for deal, airfare, mileage, etc. I frequently benefit from the deals you post on flights to Israel.

I wanted to drop you a line about deals you post for flights on ElAl. While I fully advocate you posting the deals and letting people make their own decisions, there's the small matter of what your personal responsibility is to give people all the facts. As someone who is outwardly Jewish and shomer shabbos, do you not owe it to your readers, many of whom are unwitting to disclose ElAl's direct connection to Zionism? Namely:
Almost 100% of ElAl wasis owned by the Israeli Government  till 1989 (see http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/31/business/israel-to-sell-big-stake-in-el-al.html and still - as of today owns almost %14 of ElAl shares,  see here: http://maya.tase.co.il/bursa/report.asp?report_cd=266295 other articles available upon request). Further, Israel is known to fund settlements to the tune of $200-$300 million annually.
If even a penny of the money ElAl makes off of the fare goes to fund settelments, that's something I for one would have an issue with, for the sake of saving money on a flight to Israel. The irony of funding התגרות בּאומות in order to visit the nation most affected by it is obvious.

I was actually considering flying on ElAL to Israel in March. I mentioned this to a friend who is a prominent Rabbe at Satmar who pointed out most of the above.

Interested in hearing your thoughts as to what, if any, responsibility you feel is yours."

[Mordy788]

Holy moly.


"Hey Dan, I follow your site diligently for deal, airfare, mileage, etc. I frequently benefit from the deals you post on flights to Israel.

I wanted to drop you a line about deals you post for flights on ElAl. While I fully advocate you posting the deals and letting people make their own decisions, there's the small matter of what your personal responsibility is to give people all the facts. As someone who is outwardly Jewish and shomer shabbos, do you not owe it to your readers, many of whom are unwitting to disclose ElAl's direct connection to Zionism? Namely:
Almost 100% of ElAl wasis owned by the Israeli Government  till 1989 (see http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/31/business/israel-to-sell-big-stake-in-el-al.html and still - as of today owns almost %14 of ElAl shares,  see here: http://maya.tase.co.il/bursa/report.asp?report_cd=266295 other articles available upon request). Further, Israel is known to fund settlements to the tune of $200-$300 million annually.
If even a penny of the money ElAl makes off of the fare goes to fund settelments, that's something I for one would have an issue with, for the sake of saving money on a flight to Israel. The irony of funding התגרות בּאומות in order to visit the nation most affected by it is obvious.

I was actually considering flying on ElAL to Israel in March. I mentioned this to a friend who is a prominent Rabbe at Satmar who pointed out most of the above.

Interested in hearing your thoughts as to what, if any, responsibility you feel is yours."

 

Great stuff!

[SOS]

Holy moly.


"Hey Dan, I follow your site diligently for deal, airfare, mileage, etc. I frequently benefit from the deals you post on flights to Israel.

I wanted to drop you a line about deals you post for flights on ElAl. While I fully advocate you posting the deals and letting people make their own decisions, there's the small matter of what your personal responsibility is to give people all the facts. As someone who is outwardly Jewish and shomer shabbos, do you not owe it to your readers, many of whom are unwitting to disclose ElAl's direct connection to Zionism? Namely:
Almost 100% of ElAl wasis owned by the Israeli Government  till 1989 (see http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/31/business/israel-to-sell-big-stake-in-el-al.html and still - as of today owns almost %14 of ElAl shares,  see here: http://maya.tase.co.il/bursa/report.asp?report_cd=266295 other articles available upon request). Further, Israel is known to fund settlements to the tune of $200-$300 million annually.
If even a penny of the money ElAl makes off of the fare goes to fund settelments, that's something I for one would have an issue with, for the sake of saving money on a flight to Israel. The irony of funding התגרות בּאומות in order to visit the nation most affected by it is obvious.

I was actually considering flying on ElAL to Israel in March. I mentioned this to a friend who is a prominent Rabbe at Satmar who pointed out most of the above.

Interested in hearing your thoughts as to what, if any, responsibility you feel is yours."

+10
I think we should add a option to the poll if Dan should post elal deals

[D93]

@mesh. ROTFL!! A true mesh gem!

[TimT]

Great stuff!

+1. That's why he's the best.

[mawmaw]

Holy moly.


"Hey Dan, I follow your site diligently for deal, airfare, mileage, etc. I frequently benefit from the deals you post on flights to Israel.

I wanted to drop you a line about deals you post for flights on ElAl. While I fully advocate you posting the deals and letting people make their own decisions, there's the small matter of what your personal responsibility is to give people all the facts. As someone who is outwardly Jewish and shomer shabbos, do you not owe it to your readers, many of whom are unwitting to disclose ElAl's direct connection to Zionism? Namely:
Almost 100% of ElAl wasis owned by the Israeli Government  till 1989 (see http://www.nytimes.com/1989/08/31/business/israel-to-sell-big-stake-in-el-al.html and still - as of today owns almost %14 of ElAl shares,  see here: http://maya.tase.co.il/bursa/report.asp?report_cd=266295 other articles available upon request). Further, Israel is known to fund settlements to the tune of $200-$300 million annually.
If even a penny of the money ElAl makes off of the fare goes to fund settelments, that's something I for one would have an issue with, for the sake of saving money on a flight to Israel. The irony of funding התגרות בּאומות in order to visit the nation most affected by it is obvious.

I was actually considering flying on ElAL to Israel in March. I mentioned this to a friend who is a prominent Rabbe at Satmar who pointed out most of the above.

Interested in hearing your thoughts as to what, if any, responsibility you feel is yours."

ha?"התגרות בּאומות" ? i would consider it taking what is yours and not giving in to terrorism.  sorry mash 14% is not 50% supporting the state of Israel is not like supporting Hamas. i know there is a large community that will stay away from anything that has to do with the state of Israel but compering it to supporting Hamas? that another step   

[coralsnake]

Great stuff!

+18

[meshugener]

ha?"התגרות בּאומות" ? i would consider it taking what is yours and not giving in to terrorism.  sorry mash 14% is not 50% supporting the state of Israel is not like supporting Hamas. i know there is a large community that will stay away from anything that has to do with the state of Israel but compering it to supporting Hamas? that another step

Take it easy my dear brother. I was obviously just kidding.

Just pointing out to Dan if he considers mixing politics with business - this is going to be a endless circus.
You have a problem with Turkish;
I have an issue with ElAl;
My grandmother has serious concerns about Lufthansa;
My frummy friend is pissed at non-tznius women pics in some of the magazine deals Dan posts about;
My libertarian friend believes the whole mint coins deal has some serious shailos - namely you support the Federal Reserve which is the root cause of all problem today (including Ebola);

And so on...

These things are endless.
You keep your opinions to yourself; do whatever you believe in. Just don't force your convictions on others.

[rots5]

I must admit i didnt read thru the whole thread,

but the emailer has a point, but i personally dont agree. Look, if you look a life that way i can guarantee you there is at least one purchase a day the money is going to arabs/hamas and the likes. My father never liked when i bought things from the Armenian shk, bec i was outright giving them money (i felt i ripped them off   ) and the same was true when i was in egypt, maylasia and MLE. but i dont think it makes so much sense to enforce this on other people.


With that said,Dan, this is your parnasa - if you will be more successful then post the deals. I have mixed feelings as to whether you should post,but i def would fly with them.

[mawmaw]

Hamas is taking the top of the list of most hated in our world and its very hard emotionally to think that we are possibly supporting them in any way. while thy are butchering our brothers and sisters day after day in the holy-land  the wounds are just too fresh to forget. so i wouldn't call it politically rather emotionally      

[Deal Guy]

I originally voted no and no, but i take that back now, and want to change it to no, but deals should be posted. Because,  as i believe Dan has written in the past, if Turkish advertises cheap tickets to Israel, it sometimes perhaps causes other airlines to bring down their prices. So while i won't fly with them, the more publicity there is of their cheap prices, the better chance we have of other airlines lowering their fares.