Author Topic: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...  (Read 10283 times)

Offline traveller34

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I'm a regular poster on DDF but created this new account for this specific post (for anonymity).  I haven't seen any other posts on this topic, so I thought I'd start one and look for some advice concerning my credit card accounts, credit score and ways to (i) limit the impact as much as possible, and (ii) rebuild it as fast as I can after the planned mortgage default. 

My wife and I have perfect credit and very high scores.  We bought a condo at the height of the real estate market in 2005.  We've stuck it out for over 6 years, but with two kids we don't fit anymore and need to get out.  Unfortunately, we owe $250,000 more than the condo is worth and can't afford to rent it and lose over $1500 / month.  So, after long and careful consideration we have decided to attempt a short sale and get the banks to agree to take less than what they are owed.  We would then rent a different place. 

My question relates solely to my credit score and (i) how to plan so that the hit to my credit score is as little as possible, and (ii) how to position myself now so that I can rebuild it as quickly as possible.  I fully understand how valuable a credit score is (it’s helped me attain over a million miles in just over a year), but everything has a price.

We have applied for and received over 20 credit cards in the last 12 months taking advantage of the sign-up bonuses promoted on DD.  I’ve received all the cards I “need” to survive my time in the credit basement.  However, many of my other cards have annual fees that are coming up.  Should I keep these accounts open (i.e., pay the annual fee) as a means to help rebuild my score? Are there any other tips/advice anyone else has for me before I go down the horrible road of destroying my credit. 

BTW, I am fully aware of implications of such a transaction including the recourse/nonrecourse character of the loan in my state and the possibility of cancellation of indebtedeness income.  I am also well aware of some people’s moral objection to this type of transaction.  I am not seeking that type of information or advice.

Offline Dan

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 11:58:08 AM »
How about you list what cards you have and their credit lines?

Also be aware that when the short sale hits your report that companies may start cutting your credit lines down to nothing if they pull your credit and find out.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline traveller34

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 12:15:11 PM »
Thanks Dan,

I'm aware they may cut my credit lines, which would be fine with me.  I just hope they don't close any accounts.  Here's our cards: 

Me:
  Chase Freedom $11,200 (no annual fee)
  Chase Sapphire $11,500 (annual fee due in July)
  Chase Hyatt $5,000 (annual fee in October)
  Chase Continental $5,000 (annual fee in February)
  Chase Southwest $10,000 (annual fee in March)
  Chase British Airways $5,000 (annual fee in March)
  Amex SPG $21,500 (annual fee date?)
  Amex Blue $3,000 (no annual fee, my longest continually opened card)
  Amex Hilton Honors $13,500 (no annual fee)
  Amex Plat (no pre-set limit) (annual fee in April)
  Capital One Venture Card $20,000 (annual fee in March)
  Citi AA Visa Biz $4,000 (annual fee in July)
  Citi AA MC $21,000 (annual fee in March)
  Citi AA Amex $15,550 (annual fee in October)

Wife:
  Chase Sapphire $11,500 (annual fee due in July)
  Chase Continental $17,500 (annual fee in February)
  Chase Southwest $20,000 (annual fee in March)
  Chase British Airways $5,000 (annual fee in March)
  Amex SPG $35,000 (annual fee date?)
  Amex SPG Biz ($3,000) (annual fee in June)
  Amex Plat (no pre-set limit) (annual fee in April) will cancel soon
  Amex Gold (no pre-set limit) (annual fee in June)
  Capital One Venture Card $30,000 (annual fee in March)
  Citi AA Visa Biz $4,000 (annual fee in July)
  Citi AA Visa $15,000 (annual fee in October)
  Citi AA Amex $20,550 (annual fee in October)

Offline AsherO

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2011, 12:19:42 PM »
Is there any way to factor what they report to the credit bureaus into the arrangement? i.e. they will end up with a little more green if they report something more favorable?
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Offline traveller34

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2011, 12:24:01 PM »
Is there any way to factor what they report to the credit bureaus into the arrangement? i.e. they will end up with a little more green if they report something more favorable?

My No. 1 goal is to avoid a foreclosure b/c I hope to buy again another property at some point and don't want to explain that forever. 

I've heard that the biggest hit to your score is on the missed payments (apparently you usually have to miss payments in order for them to even consider approving a short sale).  When the short sale is ultimately approved, I believe there are different ways for it to be reported, but it's usually "paid as settled" (or something similar that indicates it wasn't paid in full), which is a negative.

Offline AsherO

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2011, 12:28:00 PM »
My No. 1 goal is to avoid a foreclosure b/c I hope to buy again another property at some point and don't want to explain that forever. 

I've heard that the biggest hit to your score is on the missed payments (apparently you usually have to miss payments in order for them to even consider approving a short sale).  When the short sale is ultimately approved, I believe there are different ways for it to be reported, but it's usually "paid as settled" (or something similar that indicates it wasn't paid in full), which is a negative.

I think there are companies that negotiate short sales (for a cut of the spread between the new buyer's price and the amount the bank will get). No chance they could convince the bank to do this without any missed payments?
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Offline traveller34

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2011, 12:32:49 PM »
I think there are companies that negotiate short sales (for a cut of the spread between the new buyer's price and the amount the bank will get). No chance they could convince the bank to do this without any missed payments?

We've hired very qualified agents that specialize in short sales and the negotiations with the lenders.  At this point, I want to get it done as quick as possible (to limit the continuing missing payments) and will hope for the best on how its reported. 

Offline AsherO

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2011, 12:35:05 PM »
We've hired very qualified agents that specialize in short sales and the negotiations with the lenders.  At this point, I want to get it done as quick as possible (to limit the continuing missing payments) and will hope for the best on how its reported. 

Then I don't know what you're asking.

As far as annual fees go, many issuers will allow you to change to cards that have no annual fees (albeit less perks and spend rewards).
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Offline springles

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2011, 12:38:08 PM »
We've hired very qualified agents that specialize in short sales and the negotiations with the lenders.  At this point, I want to get it done as quick as possible (to limit the continuing missing payments) and will hope for the best on how its reported.
My guess would be that these agents that you are hired are your best source of information on how to limit the damage.  This is their area of expertise.

Offline AsherO

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2011, 12:41:55 PM »
My guess would be that these agents that you are hired are your best source of information on how to limit the damage.  This is their area of expertise.

Not really. They're looking to negotiate with the bank and get themselves a deal closed quickly. They don't really get paid by you, and I don't know how much they care about your credit once the deal is closed.
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Offline traveller34

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2011, 12:45:42 PM »
Then I don't know what you're asking.

I'm looking for insight (if anyone has any) as to the following questions:

1. Is it better to have a lot of open accounts (that are in good standing) so that the delinquent account looks like a special exception (rather than indicating that I'm a deadbeat)?

2. Should I close some accounts now b/c too many open accounts will increase the risk that some cards will be closed by the issuer. 

3. Should I consolidate my credit limits into as few of cards as possible so that I have very high limits on only a few cards?

4. Should I ask that my credit limits on certain cards be reduced so that they aren't as concerning to the issuer if they pull my credit report?

5. Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation with issuers closing cards? 

6. Does anyone have any recommendations for the situation I'll be in after the short sale --- open accounts with good cards but a lousy score.  How long will it take to increase my score?  Are there things I can do to increase it faster (i.e, carry a balance)? 


Offline AsherO

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 12:57:23 PM »
I'm looking for insight (if anyone has any) as to the following questions:

1. Is it better to have a lot of open accounts (that are in good standing) so that the delinquent account looks like a special exception (rather than indicating that I'm a deadbeat)?
2. Should I close some accounts now b/c too many open accounts will increase the risk that some cards will be closed by the issuer. 
3. Should I consolidate my credit limits into as few of cards as possible so that I have very high limits on only a few cards?
4. Should I ask that my credit limits on certain cards be reduced so that they aren't as concerning to the issuer if they pull my credit report?
5. Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation with issuers closing cards? 
6. Does anyone have any recommendations for the situation I'll be in after the short sale --- open accounts with good cards but a lousy score.  How long will it take to increase my score?  Are there things I can do to increase it faster (i.e, carry a balance)? 

1. IMHO, no. Mortgages are treated differently on your credit report, and are separately factored into your score.
2. Why close them for sure, if it's only a maybe that the issuer will close them. (see my response below to #5)
3. Wouldn't that increase the likelihood of them getting closed? High credit lines might stand out, and if they close cards outright you might want to have more cards so some might stay open.
4. I don't understand the question.
5. When Chase closed some of my cards (for excessive inquiries) they reported them as closed by consumer.
6. If you keep your utilization low and pay your bills on time it'll sort itself out quicker. You can also try to dispute the derogatory information on your report 1-3 years after it hits your report. The bureaus legally have to remove it if the creditor can't prove it.

Just my opinions, YMMV.
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Offline springles

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 01:47:09 PM »
Not really. They're looking to negotiate with the bank and get themselves a deal closed quickly. They don't really get paid by you, and I don't know how much they care about your credit once the deal is closed.
Yes, but this is what they do and I'm sure others have had similar questions for them in the past.  They want you to be happy with their services so I would imagine they will give you good advice on some of these things.  Its worth asking them.

Offline AsherO

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2011, 02:37:48 PM »
Yes, but this is what they do and I'm sure others have had similar questions for them in the past.  They want you to be happy with their services so I would imagine they will give you good advice on some of these things.  Its worth asking them.

Let's just say this isn't their primary area of expertise. Let's just say their main objective is to get you to close a deal with them, so they don't want you worrying too much about how going the short-sale route will hurt your credit.
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Offline josh nyc

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 03:59:54 PM »
I'm looking for insight (if anyone has any) as to the following questions:

1. Is it better to have a lot of open accounts (that are in good standing) so that the delinquent account looks like a special exception (rather than indicating that I'm a deadbeat)?

2. Should I close some accounts now b/c too many open accounts will increase the risk that some cards will be closed by the issuer. 

3. Should I consolidate my credit limits into as few of cards as possible so that I have very high limits on only a few cards?

4. Should I ask that my credit limits on certain cards be reduced so that they aren't as concerning to the issuer if they pull my credit report?

5. Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation with issuers closing cards? 

6. Does anyone have any recommendations for the situation I'll be in after the short sale --- open accounts with good cards but a lousy score.  How long will it take to increase my score?  Are there things I can do to increase it faster (i.e, carry a balance)?

I think the answer to #5 will help answer all your other questions, as without any experience I would at best be guessing. And as Asher O pointed out there's a YMMV in every situation. If I come across anyone that has experience in this area I will try and put you in touch

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2011, 06:57:44 PM »
I'm looking for insight (if anyone has any) as to the following questions:

1. Is it better to have a lot of open accounts (that are in good standing) so that the delinquent account looks like a special exception (rather than indicating that I'm a deadbeat)?

Maintaining open accounts through the time period of your short-sale will be an arguable point that the house was an anomaly.  The number of accounts really doesn't affect the score.  Utilization is a much bigger factor.


Quote
2. Should I close some accounts now b/c too many open accounts will increase the risk that some cards will be closed by the issuer. 

I wouldn't close any but I would make sure that and rewards levels are spent so that if they do get cancelled, you don't lose anything; e.g.,  spend the Cap1 Venture points since if that gets closed, you lose it all.  As for the annual fees coming up, you were going to cancel (most) of those anyways, right?  If so, do the "reallocate your credit line" trick and cancel away.   Don't close the cards you've had the longest - these keep your average age of credit accounts higher - which is a score factor.  After the short sale, you're probably not going to be approved for much so think about which cards you want to keep that have the best value to you - if it comes to that.  None of the big 3 will just cancel all your cards as long as you're current.  They may whack the limit or raise the interest rate first.

So, in short, do your credit churning as normal but protect yourself with rewards balances in case they do whack some accounts. 


Quote
3. Should I consolidate my credit limits into as few of cards as possible so that I have very high limits on only a few cards?

Only if you're cancelling cards you were going to cancel anyways, see #2.


Quote
4. Should I ask that my credit limits on certain cards be reduced so that they aren't as concerning to the issuer if they pull my credit report?

No.  If they have a problem, they'll let you know.  And they'll know what your new limit is.  If you call them and ask to lower your limit, you're in the dark and just guessing.  You may lower not enough and they whack you again or you may lower too much and you'd be missing credit limit.


Quote
5. Does anyone have any experience in a similar situation with issuers closing cards? 

I had a kind of similar issue 8 years ago.  Business partner A stole 1/2 million from our business.  Other partner B and I had some, err, difficulties over the next couple years sorting it all out.  I went 60-90 days late on some cards and loans trying to keep the house.  Ended up selling the house 6 months later (nice profit too) but the damage was done and I lost a couple cards  Amex cancelled my card and gave me an Optima.  Get rid of one of those as soon as you can, by the way, you can't have any other amex card if you have one of those.  After about a year or so of being sorted out, it's like nothing ever happened.  I didn't proactively cancel anything.  When I was late, I kept in contact with the companies and spun them the whole story.  Most understood - some didn't even report me.  Amex was actually pretty nice.  Diner's club were a bunch of jerks.  I did a couple partial payments of balances to keep some things off my credit report; repaid quicker to expunge the lates.


Quote
6. Does anyone have any recommendations for the situation I'll be in after the short sale --- open accounts with good cards but a lousy score.  How long will it take to increase my score?  Are there things I can do to increase it faster (i.e, carry a balance)?

Carrying a balance doesn't help your score - it just costs you money.  I think you'll be right where you ask in the Q.  cards with limits (maybe lower) and a lousy score because of the short sale.  FI says a short sale can whack 100-200 points off your score and it's the same as a foreclosure, depending on your starting credit score and history.  My guess is the being late on payments is a big factor in how much of a hit you're going to take.


As for your short-sale team caring about your credit, I'm with AsherO, they don't really.  They're like a special-kind of realtor, they want the deal to close.  A reputable (are there any?) credit-counseling company would probably be your best bet for advice.

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2011, 07:27:29 PM »
Maintaining open accounts through the time period of your short-sale will be an arguable point that the house was an anomaly.  The number of accounts really doesn't affect the score.  Utilization is a much bigger factor.


I wouldn't close any but I would make sure that and rewards levels are spent so that if they do get cancelled, you don't lose anything; e.g.,  spend the Cap1 Venture points since if that gets closed, you lose it all.  As for the annual fees coming up, you were going to cancel (most) of those anyways, right?  If so, do the "reallocate your credit line" trick and cancel away.   Don't close the cards you've had the longest - these keep your average age of credit accounts higher - which is a score factor.  After the short sale, you're probably not going to be approved for much so think about which cards you want to keep that have the best value to you - if it comes to that.  None of the big 3 will just cancel all your cards as long as you're current.  They may whack the limit or raise the interest rate first.

So, in short, do your credit churning as normal but protect yourself with rewards balances in case they do whack some accounts. 


Only if you're cancelling cards you were going to cancel anyways, see #2.


No.  If they have a problem, they'll let you know.  And they'll know what your new limit is.  If you call them and ask to lower your limit, you're in the dark and just guessing.  You may lower not enough and they whack you again or you may lower too much and you'd be missing credit limit.


I had a kind of similar issue 8 years ago.  Business partner A stole 1/2 million from our business.  Other partner B and I had some, err, difficulties over the next couple years sorting it all out.  I went 60-90 days late on some cards and loans trying to keep the house.  Ended up selling the house 6 months later (nice profit too) but the damage was done and I lost a couple cards  Amex cancelled my card and gave me an Optima.  Get rid of one of those as soon as you can, by the way, you can't have any other amex card if you have one of those.  After about a year or so of being sorted out, it's like nothing ever happened.  I didn't proactively cancel anything.  When I was late, I kept in contact with the companies and spun them the whole story.  Most understood - some didn't even report me.  Amex was actually pretty nice.  Diner's club were a bunch of jerks.  I did a couple partial payments of balances to keep some things off my credit report; repaid quicker to expunge the lates.


Carrying a balance doesn't help your score - it just costs you money.  I think you'll be right where you ask in the Q.  cards with limits (maybe lower) and a lousy score because of the short sale.  FI says a short sale can whack 100-200 points off your score and it's the same as a foreclosure, depending on your starting credit score and history.  My guess is the being late on payments is a big factor in how much of a hit you're going to take.


As for your short-sale team caring about your credit, I'm with AsherO, they don't really.  They're like a special-kind of realtor, they want the deal to close.  A reputable (are there any?) credit-counseling company would probably be your best bet for advice.

+1 for you, very thorough

Offline AsherO

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2011, 07:33:38 PM »
very thorough

+1, Spiffster has been around the block ;)
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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2011, 07:44:30 PM »
sell your condo to a bus. and let the bus do the short sale

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Re: About to kill my credit score with a short sale (any tips)...
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2011, 07:45:32 PM »
topic does belong elsewhere