Author Topic: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)  (Read 15471 times)

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2017, 12:05:06 PM »
How about refusing a shidduch due to race?
depends on the reason
Back to the Afrikaner's for a second
they believe they were the second coming of the Israelite's and the Trek was G-d taking them in the desert to the promised land and took the bible very literally. they looked to the Bible for every answer. Black were the children of Ham and therefore as you said, cursed, and slaves. They didn;t (dont) hate the blacks, they just believe that this is G-ds given mandate and the blacks must submit to be slaves as it is G-ds will.
So not for an Afrikaner to marry a black would be a problem as you said בני ברוך ואתה ארור ואין ארור מתדבק בברוך
Their main problem was they didn't know how to deal with the "coloured" issue and that was their downfall, they went waaaay overboard in trying to keep their "race" pure and blamed it on the Bible
(Michener explains it very well) 

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2017, 12:08:41 PM »
Why? Because it is so very blatantly racist, and everyone there knows it. So if someone chooses to wave it in the USA, it is only because they think they can get away with it, not because it is any less racist.
i agree with you for the most part, but i think that while it may have been lets say, naughty a couple years ago, it's become a much more blatant symbol of racism. as it now shows i want to be an alt right supremacist and has nothing to do with RSA

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2017, 12:11:33 PM »
i agree with you for the most part, but i think that while it may have been lets say, naughty a couple years ago, it's become a much more blatant symbol of racism. as it now shows i want to be an alt right supremacist and has nothing to do with RSA
Ahhh, so now it is even worse than just the SA apartheid. Now, besides the racism from that, it has a new white supremacist meaning as well?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2017, 12:25:47 PM »
Ahhh, so now it is even worse than just the SA apartheid. Now, besides the racism from that, it has a new white supremacist meaning as well?
yes, thanx to Dylan roof
http://time.com/3926593/charleston-killer-flags/
"The apartheid-era South African flag represents one of the worst periods of that country’s history. Under apartheid, which lasted from 1948 to 1994, the majority black population, along with ethnic Indians, Asians, and those of mixed-race were denied their basic rights. The white minority, which ruled the country, enforced the laws with brutal efficiency and violence. “As a South African, you see that flag and it sets alarm bells ringing,” says Christopher Charles Nicholas, a concierge in Cape Town. “To us, it brings back all the horrors of that time. Ninety-nine percent of South Africans hate that flag.” The remaining one percent, he adds, are the people who want apartheid back — South Africa’s own white supremacists."

Not sure what to make of that quote, except that its what Yehuda would agree is 100% correct
i think it's a bit overblown ...alarm bells? 99%?

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2017, 12:30:00 PM »
yes, thanx to Dylan roof
http://time.com/3926593/charleston-killer-flags/
"The apartheid-era South African flag represents one of the worst periods of that country’s history. Under apartheid, which lasted from 1948 to 1994, the majority black population, along with ethnic Indians, Asians, and those of mixed-race were denied their basic rights. The white minority, which ruled the country, enforced the laws with brutal efficiency and violence. “As a South African, you see that flag and it sets alarm bells ringing,” says Christopher Charles Nicholas, a concierge in Cape Town. “To us, it brings back all the horrors of that time. Ninety-nine percent of South Africans hate that flag.” The remaining one percent, he adds, are the people who want apartheid back — South Africa’s own white supremacists."

Not sure what to make of that quote, except that its what Yehuda would agree is 100% correct
i think it's a bit overblown ...alarm bells? 99%?

So now I think I understand whatthe two of you are saying. You are saying that, while it is racist, it is not as bad as it has now been made to be. @Yehuda57 is saying that who cares, the fact is that it is racist even without this added portion.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2017, 12:38:50 PM »
So now I think I understand whatthe two of you are saying. You are saying that, while it is racist, it is not as bad as it has now been made to be. @Yehuda57 is saying that who cares, the fact is that it is racist even without this added portion.

More - it *is* as bad as it is now made out to be, and even if not. There is literally no other reason to wave that flag. I've never, ever, heard anyone argue to have the old flag unless they wanted Apartheid back with it. Even when people waved it at rugby games, they were pretty clear that they wanted Apartheid back, they didn't even pretend to make excuses.

Apartheid = White Supremacy as the rule of the land. Dylan Roof didn't corrupt anything, he used the flag in its proper context.

Offline henche

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2017, 12:50:19 PM »
@mods, can we break off this discussion into a new thread called yehuda57 is a racist

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2017, 12:51:05 PM »
@mods, can we break off this discussion into a new thread called yehuda57 is a racist
That would be an interesting article.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2017, 01:22:46 PM »
@mods, can we break off this discussion into a new thread called yehuda57 is a racist

Discriminatory taste does not a racist make.

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2017, 04:28:23 PM »
More - it *is* as bad as it is now made out to be, and even if not. There is literally no other reason to wave that flag. I've never, ever, heard anyone argue to have the old flag unless they wanted Apartheid back with it. Even when people waved it at rugby games, they were pretty clear that they wanted Apartheid back, they didn't even pretend to make excuses.

Apartheid = White Supremacy as the rule of the land. Dylan Roof didn't corrupt anything, he used the flag in its proper context.
Is it possible that (at least some of) the people waving are simply longing for the time when South Africa didn't have such rampant crime. When people didn't have to live behind electric fences. When two Indian brothers couldn't just buy the country?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2017, 04:30:52 PM »
Is it possible that (at least some of) the people waving are simply longing for the time when South Africa didn't have such rampant crime. When people didn't have to live behind electric fences. When two Indian brothers couldn't just buy the country?
No.

Offline Freddie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2017, 06:05:51 PM »
@mods, can we break off this discussion into a new thread called yehuda57 is a racist

I'm sorry, @Yehuda57, I don't think you're a racist but @henche's comment was too good.

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2017, 06:06:51 PM »
Is it possible that (at least some of) the people waving are simply longing for the time when South Africa didn't have such rampant crime. When people didn't have to live behind electric fences. When two Indian brothers couldn't just buy the country?

I wish I was in the land of cotton, old times there are not forgotten.

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2017, 06:18:52 PM »
How about refusing a shidduch due to race?
depends on the reason
What does that mean?

The reason is the race!

Obviously אאע"ה trusted Eliezer and a lot more (דולה ומשקה מתורת רבו, etc. etc.) Yet when it came to the Shidduch it was refused solely on the grounds of race (as it is nowadays called).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2017, 07:03:33 PM »
depends on the reason

What does that mean?

The reason is the race!

Obviously אאע"ה trusted Eliezer and a lot more (דולה ומשקה מתורת רבו, etc. etc.) Yet when it came to the Shidduch it was refused solely on the grounds of race (as it is nowadays called).
Midos
there is a great shiur by r' yosef veiner on last weeks parsha you should listen to
and he explains it as inherent Midos
Yes, Eliezer or Lavan/Besuel, he'd pick the latter every day of the week (except fridays on DDF)

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Re: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2017, 07:13:41 PM »
Midos
there is a great shiur by r' yosef veiner on last weeks parsha you should listen to
and he explains it as inherent Midos
Yes, Eliezer or Lavan/Besuel, he'd pick the latter every day of the week (except fridays on DDF)
Link?

Though the pshat in Rashi seems to focus on race rather than Middos.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 07:23:26 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2017, 07:25:17 PM »
its one of these 11  ;D
http://www.kolhalashon.com/New/Shiurim.aspx?Lang=English&Path=English|ETnc|R7024-1|PrevLessons|Hayey-Sara&English=True

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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2017, 07:26:47 PM »
Any of these:
http://www.kolhalashon.com/New/Shiurim.aspx?Lang=English&Path=English|ETnc|R7024-1|PrevLessons|Hayey-Sara&English=True
yes, not sure which one though
but they are in order so its probably like the 4th or fifth