Author Topic: The Brothers Who Bought South Africa (Interesting Article Split)  (Read 15562 times)

Offline ExGingi

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« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:57:07 PM by Dan »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 01:22:48 PM »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 02:30:01 PM »
thats not even a fraction of the story
Are you referring to Gupta, Zuma or the country?

Cry the Beloved Country
Do you think some places/people are better off without democracy, or that the transition has to be a lot more gradual?

And I don't mean it the way Zuma is quoted in the article as saying:
Quote
“If it were up to me and I made the rules,” President Zuma told supporters at a rally outside Johannesburg last year, speaking in Zulu, “I would ask for six months as a dictator.” Remove the constraints of the democratic system, he continued, and “you’d see wonders.”
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 02:43:40 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 04:01:21 PM »
Are you referring to Gupta, Zuma or the country?
Do you think some places/people are better off without democracy, or that the transition has to be a lot more gradual?

And I don't mean it the way Zuma is quoted in the article as saying:
The corruption of  Gupta Zuma et al and the out right kleptocracy that is now South Africa
I think democracy works when it's not run by Kleptocrats

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 04:10:38 PM »
The corruption of  Gupta Zuma et al and the out right kleptocracy that is now South Africa
I think democracy works when it's not run by Kleptocrats
Does it work in the CIS (the former Soviet Republics)? Are some people just not made for democracy? Is kleptocracy the only problem in post Apartheid SA?

On a side note, I remember JNB being called Jan Smuts, first time I've seen the OR Tambo name.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 04:11:57 PM »
On a side note, I remember JNB being called Jan Smuts, first time I've seen the OR Tambo name.
LOL seriously? it's like 20years

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 04:18:26 PM »
The corruption of  Gupta Zuma et al
Brings to mind Trump's line about not blaming China for taking advantage of the US. How can you blame Gupta?

OTOH I'm not surprised to read about KPMG (and to a lesser degree McKinsey). I've worked for a company that had KPMG as an auditor rubber stamp.

Though not as pronounced as the South African Kleptocracy, סדנא דארעא חד הוא - Arthur Andersen was greatly damaged by the Enron fiasco, but others such as KPMG, S&P, Moody's et al are all alive and well, with no-one going to jail, after all the unraveling of the highly rated sliced and diced mortgage backed securities that precipitated the financial crash of 2008.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 04:21:42 PM »
LOL seriously? it's like 20years
As previously mentioned around DDF the first image that comes to my mind when mentioning the flag of South Africa is this. You've got to excuse me. I have strong family ties to South Africa that date back many years, but I've never been there myself.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 04:27:31 PM »
As previously mentioned around DDF the first image that comes to my mind when mentioning the flag of South Africa is this. You've got to excuse me. I have strong family ties to South Africa that date back many years, but I've never been there myself.
ah you must go, @Yehuda57 can be your guide
and thanx to Dillion Roof that flag is  racist

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 04:30:49 PM »
ah you must go, @Yehuda57 can be your guide
and thanx to Dillion Roof that flag is  racist
No need to schlep a current New Yorker as a guide. I can use a local guide if/when I ever end up going.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 04:38:15 PM »
No need to schlep a current New Yorker as a guide. I can use a local guide if/when I ever end up going.
if i may say so myself Expats do it better

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 04:55:55 PM »
ah you must go, @Yehuda57 can be your guide
and thanx to Dillion Roof that flag is  racist
It's more "thanks to apartheid", but whatever.

About the article, the comparisons to Zimbabwe are sadly more apt when you consider the rising number of farmer murders. That one of the primary opposition figures to Zuma is a rabid racist who would sooner see South Africa ethnically cleansed of whites than life actually improve for impoverished blacks tells you it's not pretty.

I don't think it's a question of democracy or not, though. How could any system of government function with an infrastructure designed to take care of 4 million people suddenly has to take care of 44 million people?

Mandela, flaws though he had, and even Mbecki to a lesser extent, recognized this, and tried to take things slow. Zuma and his cabinet are in it for personal gain only and couldn't give a rat's donkey about their constituents.

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 06:28:40 PM »
It's more "thanks to apartheid", but whatever.

in America it was not a racist symbol until Roof made it infamous, now it's worse than a swastika
a couple years ago i would have ?proudly? flown it outside my house (on purim of course) now, no chance :(

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2017, 06:58:51 PM »
Cry the Beloved Country
I guess that's what Rhodesians have been saying for decades.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2017, 07:13:24 PM »
in America it was not a racist symbol until Roof made it infamous, now it's worse than a swastika
a couple years ago i would have ?proudly? flown it outside my house (on purim of course) now, no chance :(
Please. It's racist everywhere and was racist from the second they changed the flag.

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 10:34:15 AM »
I guess that's what Rhodesians have been saying for decades.
it's the title of a famous book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cry,_the_Beloved_Country
Please. It's racist everywhere and was racist from the second they changed the flag.
here no-one cared until the alt right made it into something
which is why i could fly it on purim and my black neighbors thought it was funny
now no chance

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 10:37:06 AM »
it's the title of a famous book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cry,_the_Beloved_Countryhere no-one cared until the alt right made it into something
which is why i could fly it on purim and my black neighbors thought it was funny
now no chance
If someone doesn't know what a swastika is, does it make you wearing one any less racist?

Offline Dawie

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 10:38:22 AM »
If someone doesn't know what a swastika is, does it make you wearing one any less racist?
you;re now comparing apartheid to nazi's?
we all agree apartheid was bad and wrong
but thats a new level

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 10:40:22 AM »
you;re now comparing apartheid to nazi's?
we all agree apartheid was bad and wrong
but thats a new level
It is the symbolism of each which does not change whether or not those who view it understand the meaning of the symbolism. That does not mean they symbolize the same thing. Not sure how you saw that in what he wrote.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Interesting Articles...
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 10:43:17 AM »
It is the symbolism of each which does not change whether or not those who view it understand the meaning of the symbolism. That does not mean they symbolize the same thing. Not sure how you saw that in what he wrote.
Thanks