CV's Copy - ISRAEL-HAMAS

[CountValentine]

The practical difference here is obvious. The noisemakers have prevented Israel from entering Rafah and finishing the job.

Not a question of if but when they enter Rafah and finish the job as they claim we can all go back to our normal lives?
What now happens to Gaza?
Is Hamas now eliminated?

[Yehuda57]

I'm not sure you're right about that. Does Biden feel the same pressure to keep Bibi on a short leash if Israel was winning the PR war?
I'd say no.

Do you believe the PR war has no influence?

Israel has to go ahead and do what it needs to to defend itself. It is fighting a war to save lives, the PR war at the very least distracts from that, but usually ends up costing lives.

The practical difference here is obvious. The noisemakers have prevented Israel from entering Rafah and finishing the job.

Israel being gores the noisemakers is the problem.

[yelped]

Israel has to go ahead and do what it needs to to defend itself. It is fighting a war to save lives, the PR war at the very least distracts from that, but usually ends up costing lives.

Israel being gores the noisemakers is the problem.

You're talking theoretical, and we're talking practical...

[Dan]

Not a question of if but when they enter Rafah and finish the job as they claim we can all go back to our normal lives?
What now happens to Gaza?
Is Hamas now eliminated?

18 of 24 Hamas battalions were destroyed. 6 remain in Rafah.
When those are eliminated, Hamas ability to function as a military will also be eliminated.

The IDF plans to remain in Gaza afterwards to stop that from being reconstituted, though that's not a great long-term plan. The real key will be replacing Hamas from controlling the government of Gaza, but what will take their place is the unanswered question.

[Dan]

Israel has to go ahead and do what it needs to to defend itself. It is fighting a war to save lives, the PR war at the very least distracts from that, but usually ends up costing lives.

Israel being gores the noisemakers is the problem.

I don't think Israel is "gores" the noisemakers, they're "gores" POTUS and the ability to continue getting aid and UN support. POTUS is in turn "gores" the noisemakers, so saying the noisemakers are inconsequential seems incorrect to me.

[CountValentine]

18 of 24 Hamas battalions were destroyed. 6 remain in Rafah.
When those are eliminated, Hamas ability to function as a military will also be eliminated.

I hope you are right.

The IDF plans to remain in Gaza afterwards to stop that from being reconstituted, though that's not a great long-term plan. The real key will be replacing Hamas from controlling the government of Gaza, but what will take their place is the unanswered question.

Gaza will be rebuilt.
Hope I am wrong on this part. Hamas will not be eliminated and will also rebuild.

[Yehuda57]

I don't think Israel is "gores" the noisemakers, they're "gores" POTUS and the ability to continue getting aid and UN support. POTUS is in turn "gores" the noisemakers, so saying the noisemakers are inconsequential seems incorrect to me.

The Rebbe said it again and again: be staunch and proud doing what you need to do without compromise and the rest will fall into place. POTUS and America will support Israel so long as Israel has the pride to stand strong and firm. The first signs of weakness is when the noisemakers have their chance to seep into the policy making.

[Dan]

The Rebbe said it again and again: be staunch and proud doing what you need to do without compromise and the rest will fall into place. POTUS and America will support Israel so long as Israel has the pride to stand strong and firm. The first signs of weakness is when the noisemakers have their chance to seep into the policy making.

Agree, but the past 2 months have shows that Israel doesn't.

[CountValentine]

I don't think Israel is "gores" the noisemakers, they're "gores" POTUS and the ability to continue getting aid and UN support. POTUS is in turn "gores" the noisemakers, so saying the noisemakers are inconsequential seems incorrect to me.

Al is not POTUS. 

[CountValentine]

The first signs of weakness is when the noisemakers have their chance to seep into the policy making.

It didn't start with weakness. It started when Israel lost the PR game about casualties and aid.

[Yehuda57]

You're talking theoretical, and we're talking practical...

I'm speaking entirely practically. That's my whole point.

I don't disagree.

We clearly do disagree

[CountValentine]

We clearly do disagree

LOL

[jj1000]

We clearly do disagree

LOL

New signature?

[yelped]

I'm speaking entirely practically. That's my whole point.

We clearly do disagree

You are talking theoretically. You don't control the Israeli government. If you ran the government, then it is practical.

[jj1000]

I hope you are right. Gaza will be rebuilt.
Hope I am wrong on this part. Hamas will not be eliminated and will also rebuild.

I think basically everyone agrees with both points. But perhaps they will have a different name.

[Yehuda57]

It didn't start with weakness. It started when Israel lost the PR game about casualties and aid.

I disagree with this whole heartedly, and I don't think we will ever come to an agreement.

There were calls for a ceasefire from American politicians before Israel started fighting. Even while they Hamas terrorists were still in Israel.
Israel's casualty rate is better than any army conducting urban warfare in history, and no other army has faced the kind of civilian enmeshment Israel is facing.
No other country at war has let in even remotely close to the amount of aid that has entered Gaza. Gaza has been "on the brink of famine" for months. Every dire warning from the UN and NGOs has not come to fruition.

Then to add, the civilian casualty rate has gotten better as the war has progressed. The amount of aid entering Gaza has increased. The notion that "Israel lost the war", implying it was a battle they ever had a shot to win, is simply ludicrous.

Besides, although Israel has been better this time around than they have in the past, they have shown weakness from day 1. For instance, telegraphing their every move (to protect civilians) and allowing Hamas leaders to run and hide.

[Yehuda57]

Agree, but the past 2 months have shows that Israel doesn't.

More like the past 76 years.

[CountValentine]

I disagree with this whole heartedly, and I don't think we will ever come to an agreement.

There were calls for a ceasefire from American politicians before Israel started fighting. Even while they Hamas terrorists were still in Israel.
Israel's casualty rate is better than any army conducting urban warfare in history, and no other army has faced the kind of civilian enmeshment Israel is facing.
No other country at war has let in even remotely close to the amount of aid that has entered Gaza. Gaza has been "on the brink of famine" for months. Every dire warning from the UN and NGOs has not come to fruition.

Then to add, the civilian casualty rate has gotten better as the war has progressed. The amount of aid entering Gaza has increased. The notion that "Israel lost the war", implying it was a battle they ever had a shot to win, is simply ludicrous.

Besides, although Israel has been better this time around than they have in the past, they have shown weakness from day 1. For instance, telegraphing their every move (to protect civilians) and allowing Hamas leaders to run and hide.

We can go 104 pages but I am way past that. We will disagree.

[CountValentine]

I think basically everyone agrees with both points. But perhaps they will have a different name.

Can we official then change deterrent to detergent?

[Yo ssi]

I bet @Yo ssi is happy this convo isn't in the random post thread. 

Glad I came in the nick of time