NBA Master Thread

[jj1000]

We won't even talk about the decision fiasco. I major knock/stain on him is he couldn't win one. He had to make a super team to do it. KD is that situation but even worse.

See, this is just not fair.

When he lost to GSW twice he would have easily won with non-injured teamates. He played off the charts in those series but still won.

Does that get him GOAT credit? No. Because he didn't get those two rings.

If he stayed in Miami and got 6+ rings there, the arguments would be over and he'd be wearing his crown alone.

MJ fans want it both ways, when he played well on bad teams, it means nothing and when we played well on great teams it also means nothing.

[jj1000]

See, this is just not fair.

When he lost to GSW twice he would have easily won with non-injured teamates. He played off the charts in those series but still won.

Does that get him GOAT credit? No. Because he didn't get those two rings.

If he stayed in Miami and got 6+ rings there, the arguments would be over and he'd be wearing his crown alone.

MJ fans want it both ways, when he played well on bad teams, it means nothing and when we played well on great teams it also means nothing.

Additionally, if Lebron never went to Miami and didn't win those 2 championships, and only had 2 total, I don't think he'd be in goat talk either... Definitely not according to MJ fans.

[CountValentine]

MJ fans want it both ways, when he played well on bad teams, it means nothing and when we played well on great teams it also means nothing.

This just isn't true. One of LeBron's best moments is winning against a far better team. That says a lot IMHO even if it was Kyrie who had to get it done.

[jj1000]

This just isn't true. One of LeBron's best moments is winning against a far better team. That says a lot IMHO even if it was Kyrie who had to get it done.

That year he played well on a good team. I didn't mention that one.

I was talking about all the years he lost in CLE on bad teams but he forced them into the finals against the Spurs and deeper into the playoffs than they should have made it.

And great teams was MIA years.

[CountValentine]

Definitely not according to MJ fans.

So the consensus of the basketball world are MJ fans.
I am a Walter Payton fan. I am not making the case he is the GOAT.

[jj1000]

So the consensus of the basketball world are MJ fans.

I think so.

[CountValentine]

I was talking about all the years he lost in CLE on bad teams but he forced them into the finals against the Spurs and deeper into the playoffs than they should have made it.

The issue is no one remembers or cares. You think in MJ's early years he didn't play on bad teams? He did but no one remembers or cares.

[CountValentine]

I think so.

I wonder why that is, NOT. 

[jj1000]

#NotmyFührer I mean #NotmyGoat

[Euclid]

So the consensus of the basketball world are MJ fans.

Let's be real, MJ fans made up their minds about LBJ in 2003, and there's nothing he (or anyone) can do to change it, ie there will never be another GOAT.

[jj1000]

Let's be real, MJ fans made up their minds about LBJ in 2003, and there's nothing he (or anyone) can do to change it, ie there will never be another GOAT.

He could have better final stats and more wins. He doesn't. So I understand the debate.

He still could have more finals wins, but he'd have to forgo his salary at this point and he ain't doing that.

[Euclid]

He could have better final stats and more wins. He doesn't. So I understand the debate.

He still could have more finals wins, but he'd have to forgo his salary at this point and he ain't doing that.

Oh I fully get both sides. But it's the MJ side that isn't willing to listen or even entertain the nuance. It's like trying to debate with someone about religion.

[CountValentine]

Let's be real, MJ fans made up their minds about LBJ in 2003, and there's nothing he (or anyone) can do to change it, ie there will never be another GOAT.

You keep trying to make this about MJ fans but that is not the case. Do you see me saying LBJ fans?
For me I have watched the two their whole careers. Guys like MJ and Kobe with their work ethic are just in another class. That isn't a determining factor but things like that matter. LBJ to me is like Pippen. They just don't come to play every night.

No one can ever take away what LBJ has accomplished. You have to consider the great things that he has done with the not so good things he has done.

[CountValentine]

Oh I fully get both sides. But it's the MJ side that isn't willing to listen or even entertain the nuance. It's like trying to debate with someone about religion.

I get the nuance but just disagree.

[CountValentine]

He still could have more finals wins...

This might be true someday. One thing that is true yesterday, today and forever is he will always have more final losses. Is it better to get there and loose or not get there at all? 

[jj1000]

Is it better to get there and loose or not get there at all? 

Objectively? Or according to MJ fans?

[CountValentine]

Objectively? Or according to MJ fans?

Let me see if I understand this correctly. If you say MJ is GOAT you are a MJ fan?

It was a simple question.

[jj1000]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. If you say MJ is GOAT you are a MJ fan?

It was a simple question.

Did you quote something wrong?

That wasn't the question.

You asked a ludicrous question of its better to get to the finals and lose or not make it at all.

By that logic I am a better athlete than 95% of Olympic athletes because I never lost!

[CountValentine]

You asked a ludicrous question of its better to get to the finals and lose or not make it at all.

What is so ludicrous?

[Euclid]

Tom Brady has more Super Bowl losses than Peyton Manning