Did anyone here actually learn the halachos before speaking? I mean I have an opinion too (which I won't be sharing right now) but I don't actually know the halachos. It's a very long and complicated sugya with lots of machlokes and AFAIK one can say either way and back himself up (which in monetary dinim is itself often a way of paskening, והמבין יבין). Either way people should discuss the matter purely in a legal or "ethical" sense and not venture into halacha if they don't know the halachos clearly (hint-most people that actually know aren't on DDF).