Author Topic: 2022 Midterm Elections  (Read 32726 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2022, 08:18:40 PM »
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #82 on: August 03, 2022, 08:21:15 PM »
Now how about if believes all these decisions (abortion, vaccine mandates, sex and a bunch of other stuff) the government should stay out of? Is he still a pro-life person?
FTR There is ample reason to differentiate between what one believes is murder and other issues. Only an extreme
libertarian would argue that the government should not regulate murder.
It's hard for me to swallow a position that admits abortion is murder but the government has to completely stay out of it. Would he care if the government legalized infanticide or would it be the same attitude on that?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #83 on: August 03, 2022, 08:30:57 PM »
FTR There is ample reason to differentiate between what one believes is murder and other issues. Only an extreme
libertarian would argue that the government should not regulate murder.
It's hard for me to swallow a position that admits abortion is murder but the government has to completely stay out of it. Would he care if the government legalized infanticide or would it be the same attitude on that?
The issue is not regulating murder. Is abortion murder as you claim. Many if not the majority believe aborting an embryo is not murder. Therefore, the government should stay out of it.
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Offline dm123

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2022, 08:33:25 PM »
FTR There is ample reason to differentiate between what one believes is murder and other issues. Only an extreme
libertarian would argue that the government should not regulate murder.
It's hard for me to swallow a position that admits abortion is murder but the government has to completely stay out of it. Would he care if the government legalized infanticide or would it be the same attitude on that?

Now how about if believes all these decisions (abortion, vaccine mandates, sex and a bunch of other stuff) the government should stay out of? Is he still a pro-life person?

What do you understand as sex?

Asking b/c could be I'm misunderstanding but I'm curious why you think there's "ample reason to differentiate" between abortion (as you say "not on the same level murder"), and sex, when both seem to be of the 3 chamuros (3 cardinal sins in Judaism).

Not on the same level as murdering already-been-born people.


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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2022, 08:35:50 PM »
What do you understand as sex?
What you do in the privacy of your home.
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Offline CountValentine

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Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #87 on: August 03, 2022, 08:42:20 PM »
The issue is not regulating murder. Is abortion murder as you claim. Many if not the majority believe aborting an embryo is not murder. Therefore, the government should stay out of it.
I agree it is harder to differentiate for someone who personally opposes abortion, but doesn't consider it murder.
Many do consider it murder. They are "more pro life"? How do we classify them?

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #88 on: August 03, 2022, 08:45:39 PM »
The way the terminology is used makes no sense that is why we are having this exercise, no?

Just so you understand my position is I call the father pro-life.

Iíve always thought the ďpro-choiceĒ labeling was genius branding by its supporters. The terminology is confusing but its been extremely successful in reframing the debate.

Instead of life vs death, itís freedom vs no freedom.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #89 on: August 03, 2022, 08:46:09 PM »
Asking b/c could be I'm misunderstanding but I'm curious why you think there's "ample reason to differentiate" between abortion (as you say "not on the same level murder"), and sex, when both seem to be of the 3 chamuros (3 cardinal sins in Judaism).
I was commenting from a secular perspective. But I do think it's different from a religious one as well, for the reasons outline in the JO article. The words of the Zohar are very strong regarding abortion, I don't think the same is said about other sins, even severe ones.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #90 on: August 03, 2022, 08:49:28 PM »
I agree it is harder to differentiate for someone who personally opposes abortion, but doesn't consider it murder.
Many do consider it murder. They are "more pro life"? How do we classify them?
Would it be fair to say the country is basically split on the murder question?
Should the government get involved then?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #91 on: August 03, 2022, 09:17:59 PM »
Would it be fair to say the country is basically split on the murder question?
Didnít you agree it should be decided by state?
Should the government get involved then?
Doesnít that depend who you ask? Do you think people who think itís murder should stop thinking so because an equal amount disagree?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2022, 09:21:07 PM »
Didnít you agree it should be decided by state?
The people, yes. Not the politicians.
Doesnít that depend who you ask? Do you think people who think itís murder should stop thinking so because an equal amount disagree?
They can think whatever they want. Because they think that way doesn't make it so.
Would you be for the SCOTUS deciding if aborting an embryo was murder?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #93 on: August 03, 2022, 09:24:03 PM »
The people, yes. Not the politicians.
Donít people vote in politicians?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #94 on: August 03, 2022, 09:24:49 PM »
Donít people vote in politicians?
The flaw in our system. The politicians then do what they want.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2022, 09:25:46 PM »
The flaw in our system. The politicians then do what they want.
That flaw is equally true about every other issue under the sun.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2022, 09:28:12 PM »
Would you be for the SCOTUS deciding if aborting an embryo was murder?
No because there is no chance they would define it as I believe.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2022, 09:29:43 PM »
That flaw is equally true about every other issue under the sun.
...and the point being?
No because there is no chance they would define it as I believe.
Should I take that as you support their decisions only when you agree with them?  :)
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #98 on: August 03, 2022, 09:34:46 PM »
Should I take that as you support their decisions only when you agree with them?  :)
Obviously. I donít quite know what it would mean to ďsupportĒ a decision I disagree with.

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Re: Midterm Elections
« Reply #99 on: August 03, 2022, 09:57:41 PM »
Obviously. I donít quite know what it would mean to ďsupportĒ a decision I disagree with.
You have the religious angle to consider.
If one believes that SCOTUS is going by the constitution, then we should all support (not sure if support is the right word) their decisions.

It is like a jury verdict that you might not agree with. You don't go around saying they were wrong.
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