CV's Copy - ISRAEL-HAMAS

[CountValentine]

What do you think they are blowing up? There are rockets being fired from tunnels and bunkers which can only be reached with those bombs. How is that not defensive?

No one wants to go around in circles, again. The US has a ton of info of what is going on. Then know where these bombs are being used. They made the decision to pause delivery of these bombs based on where and how they were being used.

[yelped]

No one wants to go around in circles, again. The US has a ton of info of what is going on. Then know where these bombs are being used. They made the decision to pause delivery of these bombs based on where and how they were being used.

And the US is infallible and did this strictly to improve Israel's military objectives. 

(Same as no using US weapons to hit objectives in Russia)

[CountValentine]

And the US is infallible and did this strictly to improve Israel's military objectives. 

No one said that.

[Just A Jew]

No one wants to go around in circles, again. The US has a ton of info of what is going on. Then know where these bombs are being used. They made the decision to pause delivery of these bombs based on where and how they were being used.

This is where we'll disagree. I think it had more to do with politics and other agendas than info that they were being used against illegitimate military targets.

[gozalim]

seems like CV's TDS is kicking in.
any criticism of biden in an election year has him burying his head in the sand with idiocy like this. (he's usually smarter than that)

[CountValentine]

seems like CV's TDS is kicking in.
any criticism of biden in an election year has him burying his head in the sand with idiocy like this. (he's usually smarter than that)

Wow now there is an honest discussion. 

[CountValentine]

This is where we'll disagree. I think it had more to do with politics and other agendas than info that they were being used against illegitimate military targets.

No one said they were illegitimate targets. The targets should be destroyed, just not using the 2k bombs.
Disagreeing is fine but no need to twist words.

[Just A Jew]

No one said they were illegitimate targets. The targets should be destroyed, just not using the 2k bombs.
Disagreeing is fine but no need to twist words.

I'm not twisting words. If the US disagreed on how and where they were being used, that means that they felt these bombs were being illegitimately used on those targets, correct? I think the assumption that this was the administration's reasoning is incorrect. It has never been in dispute that the only way to crater the tunnels underneath buildings is with these bunker busters. In fact, the US has used these size bombs, and bigger, in warfare that didn't even include tunnels like these, as referenced in the post below.

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1790577260841312367

IMO, this is yet another instance of the world, led by the US, holding Israel to standards they've never held of anyone else, and most certainly not of themselves when we were engaged in various wars. Would you agree that Israel is being held to higher standards than any other country in the history of modern warfare? If not, can you point to a country which was held to the same standards?

[aygart]

No one said they were illegitimate targets. The targets should be destroyed, just not using the 2k bombs.
Disagreeing is fine but no need to twist words.

When you are dealing with underground tunnels that can easily be a contradiction

[CountValentine]

When you are dealing with underground tunnels that can easily be a contradiction

Tunnel rats!
You ever hear of that term?

[aygart]

Tunnel rats!
You ever hear of that term?

You mean the ones with a 3% survival rate?

[CountValentine]

I'm not twisting words. If the US disagreed on how and where they were being used, that means that they felt these bombs were being illegitimately used on those targets, correct?

That is not what you said: "they were being used against illegitimate military targets"
They are legitimate military targets. Maybe it was just worded wrong?

IMO, this is yet another instance of the world, led by the US, holding Israel to standards they've never held of anyone else, and most certainly not of themselves when we were engaged in various wars.

IMO this is another example of cry me a river. The US gave these bombs to Israel. There are strings attached. Israel never gave the US any bombs so they can't tell them how to use them.

[CountValentine]

You mean the ones with a 3% survival rate?

I am talking about the US military personal that went into 100 times more complex tunnels in Vietnam.

[CountValentine]

Just so there is no confusion. The US carpet bombed many areas where civilians were just collateral damage in Vietnam. That is not going to happen in today's climate without massive protests.

[Just A Jew]

That is not what you said: "they were being used against illegitimate military targets"
They are legitimate military targets. Maybe it was just worded wrong?

Wrongly worded. Clarified in the last post.

IMO this is another example of cry me a river. The US gave these bombs to Israel. There are strings attached. Israel never gave the US any bombs so they can't tell them how to use them.

Just so I have this clear... Your opinion is that the US supports Israel completely to defend themselves, and will give them the arms to do so, BUT they won't give them the correct arms to do that, and withholds arms, even when used correctly, because we set different standards for Israel. Sound right?

IOW, we support Israel, but expect them to fight with one arm behind their backs.

[Just A Jew]

Just so there is no confusion. The US carpet bombed many areas where civilians were just collateral damage in Vietnam. That is not going to happen in today's climate without massive protests.

Let's move on from Vietnam. Modern warfare has evolved so much since then, it's almost unrecognizable. There have been enough wars in the last 20 years to use as reference.

[CountValentine]

Let's move on from Vietnam. Modern warfare has evolved so much since then, it's almost unrecognizable. There have been enough wars in the last 20 years to use as reference.

When you talk about embedded among the civilians and fighting from underground then Vietnam is the perfect example.

[CountValentine]

BUT they won't give them the correct arms to do that, and withholds arms, even when used correctly, because we set different standards for Israel. Sound right?

Sounds like someone not understanding. 

[Just A Jew]

When you talk about embedded among the civilians and fighting from underground then Vietnam is the perfect example.

There are plenty of better and more recent examples (minus the tunnel aspect) of urban warfare from US battles against Al-Qaeda, Taliban, and ISIS.

[CountValentine]

There are plenty of better and more recent examples (minus the tunnel aspect) of urban warfare from US battles against Al-Qaeda, Taliban, and ISIS.

The tunnels are the biggest part of this war.