Israel War News (3 bochurim kidnapped by terrorist! HYD)

[efflpetzel]

The only thing I said was the comparison to the Hiroshima bombing is incorrect.

You didnt say that + you didnt answer my question

[PlatinumGuy]

You didnt say that + you didnt answer my question

Yes I did, pretty clearly.

Amongst other differences, the nuclear attacks ended a war. The Israeli attacks haven't achieved anything

As to your question; I don't have an opinion wether Israel should've gone in or not. I tend to think Bibbi is just caving in to pressure and there's no grand strategy, but I may very well be wrong (I hope so). I think everyone agrees if the mission was to stop to rocket fire, they've failed

[PlatinumGuy]

http://t.co/HQW4ueOKgj

Friday night meal in tel hashomer (Israel's largest hospital). They can break our houses but they can't break our spirit!

[PlatinumGuy]

Post from A Canadian MO Rabbi, who's going on to Israel on Sunday on behalf of his community.

This morning in Shul a man came up to me and gave me a hug. Then he said, "Please give that to an Israeli soldier." That's exactly what I am planning to do. Thanks so much to all of you for your good wishes and support. What I am bringing from you with me is enormous and deep. My trip is already a success and I haven't even left yet.

[efflpetzel]

Yes I did, pretty clearly.

I interpreted your words differently.

As to your question; I don't have an opinion wether Israel should've gone in or not.

Quite convenient of you not to have an opinion on this. You have an opinion on pretty much everything else that goes on in the world, but on this he doesn't have an opinion  ,
Let me guess, this is you on your warped moral high ground

[PlatinumGuy]

Let me guess, this is you on your warped moral high ground

If you reread your last few posts, I think my presence on the moral high ground is uncontested. Or as we say in hebrew אני חייב לך משהו?

[zale]

Amongst other differences, the nuclear attacks ended a war. The Israeli attacks haven't achieved anything

So, to be clear, if Israel dropped a mega bomb on Gaza killing one hundred thousand Gazan's, and following this, Hamas was never seen or heard from again, and there would finally be peace in the region, you would be in support of it?

[PlatinumGuy]

So, to be clear, if Israel dropped a mega bomb on Gaza killing one hundred thousand Gazan's, and following this, Hamas was never seen or heard from again, and there would finally be peace in the region, you would be in support of it?

It would at least be a fair comparison to the Japanese bombings. I think I would support it.  The vast majority of the past aerial attacks have no proven objective impact.

It's an incorrect assumption though, because I don't think 100k fatalities would shut hamas up, au contrare it would incise even more people to enlist in Hamas against Israel. Even if it would shut them up, it would still potentially cause a massive war with those that will come to revenge the blood of their brothers, which Israel cannot win.

[Nitantnel]

There were many philosophers who were against Truman for ordering the use of the atomic bomb.  In fact, this was precisely the reason Roosevelt refrained from using it. 

Roosevelt consistently urged the Brits and other allies to use extraordinary caution so that civilians not get harmed.

My point is that this was and still is an extremely tough choice.

Clinton could have killed osama bin laden had he not considered the lives of 300 folks from Kandahar.

Considering all the Anti-Semitism that's going around these days, it's pretty clear that not using extraordinary caution would have been a terrible choice.

[moish]

Because they weren't attacks, they were pinpoint operations.

they most certainly were not. that's israel's problem in my opinion. they can say they try hard not to hurt civilians, maybe more than any other army in the world, but these werent pinpoint operations

[Nitantnel]

they most certainly were not. that's israel's problem in my opinion. they can say they try hard not to hurt civilians, maybe more than any other army in the world, but these werent pinpoint operations

Everything is relative.

[chamdena]

WTH

There better be some commitment from Hamas that we don't know about…

PG: "commitment from Hamas"? That's a whole new level of fantasy...

[avadah]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183655#.U944cpt0zIU
Video of border police jumping into a moving car loaded with explosives at a checkpoint.

[yitzf]

Hamas is demanding an apology from US and UN now that Goldin is only dead, not kidnapped.
https://twitter.com/JSchanzer/status/495969626795556865

[DovtheBear]

http://mobile.mako.co.il/news-israel/local/Article-07f96e8393c9741004.htm?sCh=3d385dd2dd5d4110&pId=1898243326

[aygart]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/08/01/netanyahu-must-bury-hamas-for-good-to-win-war-in-gaza-1857516008/

[yitzf]

http://muqata.blogspot.com/2014/07/an-idf-soldiers-letter-from-front.html

A soldier on the border writes:

What's happening here in the staging area [area where soldiers prepare to enter Gaza] is beyond comprehension, not rationally, not emotionally and beggars the imagination.

Almost every hour a car shows up overflowing with food, snacks, cold drinks, socks, underwear, undershirts, hygiene supplies, wipes, cigarettes, backgammon and more. They're coming from the North and the Center, from manufacturers, from companies and private businesses, from prisons, Chareidim and Settlers, from Tel Aviv and even Saviyon.

Every intersection on they way down here we get stopped, not by the police, but be residents giving out food. What is amazing is that the entire situation wasn't organized and everyone is coming on their own without coordination between the folks coming.

They're writing letters and blessings, how they're thinking of us all the time. There are those who spent hours making sandwiches, so they're as perfect and comforting as possible.

Of course representatives of Chabad are here to help soldiers put on Tefillin and distributing Cha'Ta'Ts (Chumash, Tehillim, Tanya) for every troop transport and Breslov are showing up to the border and dancing with the soldiers with great joy.

The Chareidim are coming from their yeshivot to ask the names of the soldiers with their mothers' names so that the whole yeshiva can pray for them. It should be mentioned that all of this is done under the threat of the terrorist tunnels and rockets in the area.
Soroka Hospital (in Be'er Sheva) today looks like a 5 star hotel. A wounded friend who was recently discharged told us how the MasterChef truck is parked outside and is preparing food for the wounded.

It goes without saying the amount of prayer services that are going on. On the religious front as well, there are lectures and Torah classes, all the food is obviously Kosher. Shachrit, Mincha, and Maariv with Sifrei Torah. They're giving out tzitzit and Tehilim by the hundreds. It's become the new fashion! The Rabbi of Maglan [Special Forces unit] told me that almost the entire unit has started wearing them, because the Army Rabbinate has been giving out tzitzit that wick away sweat. They're gaining both a Mitzva and a high quality undershirt. We've started calling them "Shachpatzitzti" (a portmanteau of the Hebrew term for body armor and tzitzit). We're having deep conversations late into the night without arguments, without fights and we find ourselves agreeing on most stuff.

We're making lots of jokes at Hamas's expensive and without politics. There's lots more to add but my battery is running low and the staff has been requesting someone give a class on Likutei MoharaN (Breslov).

How happy is the nation that is like this.

[zale]

There were many philosophers who were against Truman for ordering the use of the atomic bomb.  In fact, this was precisely the reason Roosevelt refrained from using it. 

I'm not arguing with this, but please provide sources.

Roosevelt consistently urged the Brits and other allies to use extraordinary caution so that civilians not get harmed.

Please provide sources for this too.

Considering all the Anti-Semitism that's going around these days, it's pretty clear that not using extraordinary caution would have been a terrible choice.

What utter malarkey!

There is no evidence whatsoever that antisemitism would be worse if Israel didn't do a pinpoint operation. In fact, did you see people holding up signs saying "Israel's pinpoint operation is still genocide"? Did you see the left-wing media reporting about Israel's pinpoint operation?

[notanonymous]

I'm not arguing with this, but please provide sources.

I don't want to jump in to this discussion, but since this is history related (and I love history)...

"Prof. Albert Einstein... said that he was sure that President Roosevelt would have forbidden the atomic bombing of Hiroshima had he been alive and that it was probably carried out to end the Pacific war before Russia could participate." ("Einstein Deplores Use of Atom Bomb", New York Times, 8/19/46, pg. 1). Einstein later wrote, "I have always condemned the use of the atomic bomb against Japan." (Otto Nathan & Heinz Norden, editors, "Einstein on Peace", pg. 589).

[zale]

I don't want to jump in to this discussion, but since this is history related (and I love history)...

Einstein was a notorious pacifist. Makes sense he would consider the a-bomb unjustifiable.