Immigrants day

[as2]

Getting a driver's license doesn't mean they pay taxes, the discussion here is if they're a drain on public funds. I can't imagine anyone here illegally that's interested in paying taxes but not interested enough to become a legal citizen...

I didn't say that it does, but I was asking if you were aware that it is even possible. When they signup for certain benefits, they are required to declare income they receive to make them eligible for said benefits. Some do report, others do not, but the same goes for legal citizens. 

[cholent]

So you're saying that a person here in the US illegally will steal an identity only to be able to pay taxes? For what reason? The only reason I can think of is so that they can get Food Stamps and Medicaid which IINM requires some form of income, in that case they're not giving enough to counteract what they're taking, which brings us back to

I'm not talking about your cleaning help. Illegal immigrants who want to work for real companies who aren't willing to openly hire ppl not authorized to work in the country will provide a fake ss number. Taxes are automatically withheld by payroll, these may actually be even higher taxes than they would owe (i.e. they are not eligible for refund or EITC because they can't actually file with a fake ss). So any illegal immigrant being paid on the books is probably paying taxes.

[JoeyShmoe]

I'm not talking about your cleaning help. Illegal immigrants who want to work for real companies who aren't willing to openly hire ppl not authorized to work in the country will provide a fake ss number. Taxes are automatically withheld by payroll, these may actually be even higher taxes than they would owe (i.e. they are not eligible for refund or EITC because they can't actually file with a fake ss). So any illegal immigrant being paid on the books is probably paying taxes.

And all I'm saying is that I can't imagine that someone looking to work legally in a large company that requires to be a legal citizen would provide a fake or stolen SSN rather than getting their legitimate own SSN. I might be wrong though

[as2]

And all I'm saying is that I can't imagine that someone looking to work legally in a large company that requires to be a legal citizen would provide a fake or stolen SSN rather than getting their legitimate own SSN. I might be wrong though

Start imagining it, when my company took over the facility that I work in, all the employees were required to be "legal" but were not actually confirmed by the previous company. Day 1 was a mess when our company actually confirmed that 95% of the employees info was off.

[skyguy918]

And all I'm saying is that I can't imagine that someone looking to work legally in a large company that requires to be a legal citizen would provide a fake or stolen SSN rather than getting their legitimate own SSN. I might be wrong though

Huh? If they're not legal to work here, but want to work at such a company, than fake/stolen is the only way to go. They can't get their own.

[aygart]

And all I'm saying is that I can't imagine that someone looking to work legally in a large company that requires to be a legal citizen would provide a fake or stolen SSN rather than getting their legitimate own SSN. I might be wrong though

How would they get their own if they are not here legally?

[JoeyShmoe]

Huh? If they're not legal to work here, but want to work at such a company, than fake/stolen is the only way to go. They can't get their own.

How would they get their own if they are not here legally?

Is identity theft a smaller hassle than going through the citizenship process?

[aygart]

Is identity theft a smaller hassle than going through the citizenship process?

yes. You pay someone for the ID and are done.

[zh cohen]

And all I'm saying is that I can't imagine that someone looking to work legally in a large company that requires to be a legal citizen would provide a fake or stolen SSN rather than getting their legitimate own SSN. I might be wrong though

You do know that it is very difficult to immigrate legally, right?

[JoeyShmoe]

yes. You pay someone for the ID and are done.

And it pays for the potential ramifications of being caught as an identity thief? I'm actually trying to understand this, not argue

[as2]

Is identity theft a smaller hassle than going through the citizenship process?

Yes, to some. Have you ever looked I to the citizenship process? Not a fun game to play, hence the millions spewing in illegally.

[aygart]

And it pays for the potential ramifications of being caught as an identity thief? I'm actually trying to understand this, not argue

You do know that it is very difficult to immigrate legally, right?

If they can't get the green card this is their only choice in order to get the job.

[shulem92]

It's friday somewhere...

Nothing as intelligent as proclaiming that you are undocumented LOL

I understand that you don't want these jobs, but what do you think? Without them houses wouldn't be built? Your house wouldn't be cleaned?...
And besides that, don't forget there are enough immigrants that are legally here that they would do those jobs.

I may be understanding wrong, but isn't this supposed to be all immigrants? Even the legal ones? That's how I read the sign anyway. If you are undocumented, OR citizen, OR resident....

[JoeyShmoe]

You do know that it is very difficult to immigrate legally, right?

It's also doable if you really want it. Both my parents and 3/7 siblings are immigrants and are citizens, they went through hell and persevered. Now you might say that those coming through the border illegally will have a harder time to become legal and thus might choose to rather use a fake/stolen SSN, I have no answer for that...

[cholent]

Is identity theft a smaller hassle than going through the citizenship process?

You do know that it is very difficult to immigrate legally, right?

For many it's not just difficult but impossible. And once they are already in the country there may be no legal path to citizenship, especially for those in unskilled jobs

[yuneeq]

I may be understanding wrong, but isn't this supposed to be all immigrants? Even the legal ones? That's how I read the sign anyway. If you are undocumented, OR citizen, OR resident....

We are all immigrants or children of immigrants.
Those who are here legally are generally paying their fair share and contributing to society and don't respect that certain people are cutting out the process that we had to go through.
I personally don't mind making everyone citizens as long as they aren't likely to commit crimes and as long as we aren't importing a net drain on our economy.

But that will never happen.

[JoeyShmoe]

For many it's not just difficult but impossible. And once they are already in the country there may be no legal path to citizenship, especially for those in unskilled jobs

Got it. Those that don't pay taxes though - legal citizens or otherwise - are still a huge drain on public funds (which is the beginning of this conversation...)

[aygart]

they went through hell and persevered.

So what your question?

[JoeyShmoe]

So what your question?

No question, we're discussing @yuneeq's statement that those that don't pay taxes are a huge drain to public funds and @as2's response to that

I do agree in some cases, but not all. Many are upstanding good people paying in the same taxes you and I are.

What I was trying to say was that if they want to pay taxes they can become a citizen (albeit through lots of Shvitzing) and not be a drain on public funds (which is where the mention of my family came in) - without stealing identities, apparently I'm being told that there are those that can't for whatever reason become citizens yet still don't want to pay taxes and not be a drain on public funds.

[as2]

No question, we're discussing @yuneeq's statement that those that don't pay taxes are a huge drain to public funds and @as2's response to that
What I was trying to say was that if you want you can become a citizen (albeit through lots of Shvitzing) and pay taxes and not be a drain on public funds (which is where the mention of my family came in), apparently I'm being told that there are those that can't for whatever reason become citizens yet still don't want to pay taxed and not be a drain on public funds.

My response was to a statement, which I interpreted to imply, that illegals are a drain to public funds. To which I replied that it isn't always the case but generally I'd agree. I think we all agree on the bottom line here.