Why is there so much lashon hora on here about restaurants (and other things)

[jj1000]

Is it lashon hara to call out members on a forums for saying lashon hara?

[etech0]

I didn't expect to be in Buenos Aires. I read reviews about Asian being the best restaurant in the world and decided to go there when award space popped up.

More likely to happen to you than to me, FWIW

Is it lashon hara to call out members on a forums for saying lashon hara?

Great question! I think the goal here is to clarify what is and isn't lashon hara. The thing with l'toeles is that it would depend on the listener/reader, which is quite hard to handle on a public forum. I've been wondering about this for a while.

[Yehuda57]

But always known.

Not at all. *You* might know, but plenty of people do not.

I've seen this with people who are smart and usually know better, but influencers can be very convincing in how natural they sound. There are also deal sites who don't disclose that some "deals" are paid ads, and some you can pay for words like "Hot!" to be added.

[jj1000]

Great question! I think the goal here is to clarify what is and isn't lashon hara. The thing with l'toeles is that it would depend on the listener/reader, which is quite hard to handle on a public forum. I've been wondering about this for a while.

I don't think so.

For example, we said specific examples can be given l'toeles, but using words can be exaggerating, and shouldn't be done.

For example:

Plain and simple, the amount of lashon hara on here about restaurants is astounding. The horrible language

Is that allowed, even according to what you are saying? Or are those the modifiers the OP and the ensuing conversation is specifically calling out?

[aygart]

I didn't expect to be in Buenos Aires. I read reviews about Asian being the best restaurant in the world and decided to go there when award space popped up.

You could have just as easily read the reviews at that time

[etech0]

I don't think so.

For example, we said specific examples can be given l'toeles, but using words can be exaggerating, and shouldn't be done.

For example:

Plain and simple, the amount of lashon hara on here about restaurants is astounding. The horrible language

Is that allowed, even according to what you are saying? Or are those the modifiers the OP and the ensuing conversation is specifically calling out?

I don't know, I'm not a Rabbi nor would I say something like that myself.

[AsherO]

and some you can pay for words like "Hot!" to be added.

The intersection of shady deal sites and bad restaruants

[AsherO]

I don't think so.

For example, we said specific examples can be given l'toeles, but using words can be exaggerating, and shouldn't be done.

For example:

Plain and simple, the amount of lashon hara on here about restaurants is astounding. The horrible language

Is that allowed, even according to what you are saying? Or are those the modifiers the OP and the ensuing conversation is specifically calling out?

Easy solution: It's only LH when other people say it.

[jj1000]

If you consulted this Rabbi about the internet

As with most things in life, anyone to the right of me is a whacko and anyone to the left of me is not following Torah and doesn't listen to rabbanim!

"Hear how Rabbanim speak out against influencers" but don't listen to how Rabbanim say you shouldn't be on the internet.

[jj1000]

Easy solution: It's only LH when other people say it.

Preciely.

I think a thread on this is great, and elevating the conversation on an online forums, would be excellent as well. But c'mon, when someone calls something out while doing that thing, is, well, I don't know the right word for it.

Hopefully l'toeles something good comes from this specific example explained in full

[etech0]

Maybe the answer is: to best avoid reading lashon hara, avoid reading / participating in public forums.

I don't know...

[Dan]

You could have just as easily read the reviews at that time

Uh. There wouldn't be a that time if I didn't read the review.

Heard that countless people that have read DDMS reviews as well.

[jj1000]

Maybe the answer is: to best avoid reading lashon hara, avoid reading / participating in public forums.

I don't know...

I think most people agree that the best is to learn and do just mitzvos all day, every day.

But we aren't malachim and we live in a physical world. So the question is, where do we draw lines?

And when we have our own line, how do we address and deal with others that have a different line than we do.

[aygart]

Uh. There wouldn't be a that time if I didn't read the review.

Heard that countless people that have read DDMS reviews as well.

That sounds more applicable to positive reviews than negative reviews, but even if not, that would be different for someone who that is applicable to than someone who it isn't

[mevinyavin]

What about people reading reviews about places in locations they have no intention of visiting?

However, one who will never fly should not read the posts about airline food. Similarly, don't read any restaurant reviews that are out of your budget or not where you live or will be traveling.

Uh. There wouldn't be a that time if I didn't read the review.
Heard that countless people that have read DDMS reviews as well.

I worded myself carefully. Dan might go to South America if he feels like it. I never would. I make judicious use of the ignore thread option for any subject that is definitely not nogea to me and therefore no chance of toeles to ME, even though it usually is toeles for others.

Once the subject was brought up: Another relevant comment from Rabbi Berkovits (last week's parsha!) - hocheach tochiach trumps onaas devarim but not malbin pnei chavero brabim (hence hocheach tochiach - but lo sisa alav chet). This might apply when calling out a member with an identity that is known to the public.

[yelped]

That sounds more applicable to positive reviews than negative reviews, but even if not, that would be different for someone who that is applicable to than someone who it isn't

What's your point? The person writing it shouldn't write it, because it may not apply to someone reading it? If someone tells his friend something, does he have to make sure no one is nearby and can possibly hear what he is saying?

I know when reading trip reports, I will usually skip parts talking about food in areas where I would never buy or end up in. Does the writer have to account for people reading it to who it may not apply to?

[aygart]

What's your point?

What about people reading reviews about places in locations they have no intention of visiting?

They shouldn't and people should do like this guy.

I know when reading trip reports, I will usually skip parts talking about food in areas where I would never buy or end up in.

[etech0]

They shouldn't and people should do like this guy.

I agree, though it's not always easy to know where to stop before it's too late.

[yelped]

They shouldn't and people should do like this guy.

To be honest, I don't do that because of potential LH, I do it just because I'm limited with time, and I'm not particularly a foodie, especially when it's not relevant to me.

My question is on the writer. Do you have an issue with the writer writing ltoeles, if there will be someone reading it who it may not be directly relevant to at the time?

[aygart]

To be honest, I don't do that because of potential LH, I do it just because I'm limited with time, and I'm not particularly a foodie, especially when it's not relevant to me.

My question is on the writer. Do you have an issue with the writer writing ltoeles, if there will be someone reading it who it may not be directly relevant to at the time?

No