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Author Topic: Why is there so much lashon hora on here about restaurants (and other things)  (Read 7085 times)

Offline imayid2

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The fish tasted way to fishy or the fish was too salty.
Fact or opinion?
It’s a fact that to you it tasted salty/fishy

Offline aygart

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It’s a fact that to you it tasted salty/fishy

It is a fact that this is his opinion.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline sguitarist18

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It’s a fact that to you it tasted salty/fishy

Probably would be more accurate to say, "was too salty/fishy for my taste."

Offline imayid2

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Probably would be more accurate to say, "was too salty/fishy for my taste."
I think that’s always obvious, but it does make it more polite.

Offline aygart

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אינו נאכל מחמת מלחו
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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The fish tasted way to fishy or the fish was too salty.
Fact or opinion?

Obligatory Something Fishy tag
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Offline biobook

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What about “the pizza tasted like cardboard” and “the waiter was a rude schm*k”. Are those facts or opinions?
I would say that it's not a matter of opinion vs facts, but rather useful vs useless comments.  Useful comments express opinions, but also include the factual evidence that underlies them.

"The pizza tasted like cardboard" is an opinion, and needs to be followed by clarifying evidence to make it useful, such as:

The pizza tasted like cardboard...
... because the dough seemed to lack any oil, or
... because it was topped with only a smattering of sauce and cheese, or
... because the tomato sauce had no spices and the garlic and oregano shakers were empty, or
... but then I realized that I was not supposed to eat the box it came in

“The waiter was a rude schm*k” is an opinion, but unintentionally useful.  The wording of the comment suggests that perhaps the customer's attitude triggered the waiter's schm*ckitude, and that a courteous person would have a positive experience.

Offline etech0

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"The pizza tasted like cardboard" is an opinion
More likely to be a fact if the person stating it has tasted cardboard in the past
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline CountValentine

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What about “the pizza tasted like cardboard”
That is what is great about Domino's pizza. Once you finish the pizza you can eat the cardboard and not know the difference.
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Offline AsherO

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I appreciate with your well reasoned posts but I disagree with almost anything you wrote over here.

Taste is subjective, and not always do you have an explanation for why something tasted a certain way. I definitely don’t think the burden should be on the reviewer to defend their review. Since it’s subjective anyone reading can draw whatever conclusions they want, as you did.

Maybe it was a discourteous waiter that triggered the reviewers discourteous reaction. After all, at a high end restaurant you might expect the waiter to remain professional even if the customer wasn’t.
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Offline AsherO

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That is what is great about Domino's pizza. Once you finish the pizza you can eat the cardboard and not know the difference.

If they can’t do it for the pizza, they should at least try to get the boxes certified Kosher :D
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Offline UKinNYS

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It is a fact that this is his opinion.

על טעם וריח אֵין להתווכח

Offline mevinyavin

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If I understood the Rav correctly, you can say the fact: That YOU thought it tasted like cardboard. But not that "It tasted like cardboard." And you should also add that this is only your opinion.
Hence, for instance:

...The Of Tempura was about ten largish pieces of chicken in plain tempura, and a small bowl of teriyaki sauce which was very good. The chicken was very soft inside the tempura but IMHO the dish (an appetizer according to the menu) should have come with half the chicken at half the price, being that there wasn't any flavor but the teriyaki sauce. I enjoyed the first few pieces, as did my brother, but we ended up taking four pieces home....
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Offline imayid2

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If I understood the Rav correctly, you can say the fact: That YOU thought it tasted like cardboard. But not that "It tasted like cardboard." And you should also add that this is only your opinion.
Hence, for instance:
When someone says “it tasted like cardboard”, everyone know that he means “in my opinion it tasted like cardboard”.

Offline mevinyavin

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When someone says “it tasted like cardboard”, everyone know that he means “in my opinion it tasted like cardboard”.
Everyone SHOULD know. But the Rav said peh malei - you should say it anyways when attached to anything that is an opinion expressed l'toeles.
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Offline imayid2

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Everyone SHOULD know. But the Rav said peh malei - you should say it anyways when attached to anything that is an opinion expressed l'toeles.
If he is your Rav, you should definitely listen to his personal guidance.

Offline CountValentine

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When someone says “it tasted like cardboard”, everyone know that he means “in my opinion it tasted like cardboard”.
Does the person mean literally or as a metaphor?
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Offline mevinyavin

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If he is your Rav, you should definitely listen to his personal guidance.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that whenever you express any negative info ltoeles, you are mechuyev to add any mitigating factors together with it. Surely saying this is only my opinion qualifies as that.

Gotta go now. Have a great Shabbos, everyone!  :)
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Offline imayid2

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Does the person mean literally or as a metaphor?
As a metaphor, obviously

Offline imayid2

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that whenever you express any negative info ltoeles, you are mechuyev to add any mitigating factors together with it. Surely saying this is only my opinion qualifies as that.

Gotta go now. Have a great Shabbos, everyone!  :)
I do not know specifically to which Halacha you are referring to. If it’s clear to all that it’s his opinion, as taste always is, I don’t particularly see the mitigation.
GS!!