Author Topic: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos  (Read 24631 times)

Online ExGingi

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #200 on: June 27, 2017, 11:31:48 PM »
Imho this particular case (and lots of other cases) the root cause is absolutely taaveh.
So how is any intellectual argument going to help with that?

Quote
The issue is since it is taaveh they have a guilty conscience and try covering it up with all sorts of theological questions. Once they start reading apikorses and the likes, since  the rock solid foundation of yiddishkeit is missing they get all excited and start believing there might be some truth to the garbage. And so it continues...if R"L there is no schar v'oinesh then let's do as we please...
It might be missing, and it might not be missing. Taavos are very strong, sometimes they can overpower even someone with strong foundations. And once things begin, one never knows where they can end. Maybe the right approach would be to start talking to him about his kids, which I would assume he loves, and how he would like them to grow up.

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So if I can provide this fellow with some material on the basics #1 he will see none of the questions were born today and however strong the questions Judaism is stronger and #2 even if I won't get him to that point of realizing the truth it'll definitely give him some guilt feelings which might stop him from slipping more
You are making some good arguments here, which leads me back to the conclusion, that guidance from an expert, rather than from friends on DDF, is what's called for.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #201 on: June 27, 2017, 11:33:07 PM »
So how is any intellectual argument going to help with that?
It might be missing, and it might not be missing. Taavos are very strong, sometimes they can overpower even someone with strong foundations. And once things begin, one never knows where they can end. Maybe the right approach would be to start talking to him about his kids, which I would assume he loves, and how he would like them to grow up.
You are making some good arguments here, which leads me back to the conclusion, that guidance from an expert, rather than from friends on DDF, is what's called for.
there is even a psychological term for it. Cognitive dissonance.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #202 on: June 27, 2017, 11:35:02 PM »
I do not know if he eats treif but based on his language I wouldn't be shocked an iota if yes. Imho this particular case (and lots of other cases) the root cause is absolutely taaveh. The issue is since it is taaveh they have a guilty conscience and try covering it up with all sorts of theological questions. Once they start reading apikorses and the likes, since  the rock solid foundation of yiddishkeit is missing they get all excited and start believing there might be some truth to the garbage. And so it continues...if R"L there is no schar v'oinesh then let's do as we please...

So if I can provide this fellow with some material on the basics #1 he will see none of the questions were born today and however strong the questions Judaism is stronger and #2 even if I won't get him to that point of realizing the truth it'll definitely give him some guilt feelings which might stop him from slipping more

Has anyone ever read R Avogadro Millers book The truth of the Torah?
Do you really think he read things which opened questions or just that he knows of there existence or maybe not even that?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avremel

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Re: Percentage Of Kids Texting On Shabbos
« Reply #203 on: June 30, 2017, 08:35:37 AM »
Like a Rosh Yeshiva once told me, that the reason why there's no haskalah today is because no one cares, and no one thinks. He said there's a maalah that no one thinks bec. there's no haskala, but the chisaron is that the yiddishkeit is less strong. He said he doesn't know if the pros of a non-thinking generation outweigh the cons.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe aggrees with distinction between Europe and America, and provides his own solution (Igros Koshesh Vol 15 P 44):

...וכבר אמרתי כמה פעמים שאחת המעלות טובות דאמריקה לגבי אירופה מאז, היא שהמצב כאן הוא לא מציאות הרע שמוכרח להלחם בו, אלא בעיקר עם-הארצות (שהוא רק ענין של העדר ושלילה) שהביא לידי חלל רוחני והעדר תוכן. ולכן הקו דעשה טוב עוד יותר מחוייב כאן, וכל הויכוחים הם בדרגה שני' ואפשר שלישית ועוד למטה. ובעיקר - צריך להפיץ דיעות ישרות מבוססות על התורה ועל המסורה. ובימינו אלה בפרט, בכדי שהתעמולה הזאת תתקבל על דעת חוגים רחבים, וביחוד בין הנוער, מוכרח שתהי' חדורה אור וחיות ותנועה של שמחה, שגם אלה מתכונות ויסודות שיטת החסידות.