Poll

Do you eat quinoa on pesach (with a pesach hashgacha)

Yes
4 (57.1%)
I agree that its mutar but havent actually eaten
0 (0%)
No
2 (28.6%)
No and i would never eat in the house of anyone who does
1 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closed: April 13, 2023, 06:30:33 PM

Author Topic: Quinoa on Pesach  (Read 6154 times)

Offline Adam101

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2016, 12:43:55 AM »
No BUMPs this year? ? It's mesora...

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2016, 12:44:35 PM »
So why are potatoes held to a diff standard than quinoa.
I don't know your guidelines for respect, rabbinic, or authoritative
but there was quite an argument at the OU between R' Shachter and R' Belsky until R' Genack was machria.
The lenient argument is  simply that it wasn't included in the gezeira,  while the strict argument is that it fits all the parameters of the reasons for kitniyos (looks like grain, is ground like grain, and is processed with grain- to the extent that unless it bears a reliable hashgacha,  you muat check it for grains.)
^^^

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2016, 11:39:43 PM »
No BUMPs this year? ? It's mesora...
Was only posted last year. By definition thats not mesorah
READ THE DARN WIKI!!!!

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2016, 10:37:30 AM »
The reason I heard why it would be kitniyos is because quinoa is used to make bread (in other parts of the world) as opposed to potatoes which are not

I've had potato bread
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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2016, 12:10:24 PM »
For those that insist on peeling everything, Quinoa would be out of question regardless of whether it is kitniyos or not, as it can't be peeled  :D
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2016, 09:32:19 PM »
For those that insist on peeling everything, Quinoa would be out of question regardless of whether it is kitniyos or not, as it can't be peeled  :D
You underestimated what some will do for a Kosher Lepesach sushi roll... :P

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2016, 09:37:22 PM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2023, 09:50:20 AM »




Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2023, 09:56:39 AM »
The OU reversed course on quinoa a couple of years ago despite Rav Belskys strong opinion that it’s kitnitos. Apparently Rabbi Shachter feels otherwise.

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2023, 10:05:04 AM »
Rabbi Yehuda Spitzs has an excellent article on the subject and is the most comprehensive that I’ve seen. It’s on Ohr Somayachs website. I don’t have the exact link. I clipped it a couple years ago, here it is:

Quote
Generally speaking, this time of year is the busiest for Rabbanim the world over; fielding questions on every aspect of the myriad and complex halachos of Pesach observance. Yet, interestingly, the question that often seems to be utmost on people’s minds is not about chometz or even cleaning properly. No, the biggest issue during the ‘Pre-Pesach Rush’ in recent years seems to be whether quinoa (pronounced Keen-Waah) is considered kitniyos and whether Ashkenazim can eat it on Pesach. Perhaps, it has something to do with the fact that the U.N. declared 2013 as the ‘International Year of the Quinoa’. Whatever the reason, after receiving this question numerous times in one day, this author decided to thoroughly examine the issue.

Quinoa Questions

Quinoa has developed an international following. Packed with protein (essential amino acids) and fiber, as well as magnesium, phosphorus, calcium and iron (and, naturally, cholesterol free!), quinoa packs quite a dietary punch. Although billed as the ‘Mother of All Grains’ and ‘the Super Grain’, this native of the Andes Mountains (think Bolivia and Peru) is actually a grain that isn’t; it does not even contain gluten. It turns out that quinoa is really a member of the ‘goose-foot’ family (Chenopodium), related to beets and spinach. However, while its health benefits sound terrific, it still may be problematic on Pesach.

Kitniyos Clash

It is well known that the actual prohibition of chometz on Pesach pertains exclusively to leavened products produced from the five major grains: wheat, barley, oats, spelt, or rye.[1]Yet, already in place from the times of the Rishonim,[2]there was an Ashkenazic[3]prohibition against eating kitniyos (legumes; ostensibly based on its semi-literal translation: ‘little things’) on Pesach, except in times of famine or grave need.[4]Although several authorities opposed this prohibition,[5]nonetheless it is binding on Ashkenazic Jewry in full force, even today.[6]

Although referred to slightly differently by our great luminaries, i.e. the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch references the kitniyos restrictionas an ‘issur’, the Mishnah Berurah as a ‘chumrah’, the Aruch Hashulchan as a ‘geder’, Rav Tzvi Pesach Frank zt”l as a ‘gezeirah’, Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l as a ‘minhag’, and the Klausenberger Rebbe zt”l as a ‘takanah’, nonetheless, they all maintain that thekitniyos prohibition is compulsory on all Ashkenazic Jewry.[7]In fact, the Aruch Hashulchan avers that ‘once our forefathers have accepted this prohibition upon themselves, it is considered a ‘geder m’din Torah’ and one who is lenient is testifying about himself that he has no fear of Heaven”. He adds, echoing Shlomo Hamelech’s wise words in Koheles regarding a ‘poretz geder’, that one who breaks this prohibition deserves to be bitten by a snake.[8]

Several reasons are given for the actual prohibition[9]including that kitniyos often grow in close proximity to grain; are commonly stored together with grain and actual chometz might actually end up mixed inside the kitniyos container; cooked dishes made from grain and kitniyos look similar; and that kitniyos can likewise be ground up into flour - a ‘bread’ of sorts can actually be made from them. Since there are many who will not be able to differentiate between them and their Biblically forbidden chometz counterparts, kitniyos was likewise prohibited.

Potatoes, Peanuts, and Corn…Oh My!

So how does our quinoa measure up? Although it has been used in the Andes for millennia, it has only recently gained popularity around the world. Does quinoa fit the kitniyos criteria or not?

Perhaps we can glean some insight to quinoa’s kitniyos status from halachic precedents of other now-common food staples that were introduced long after the kitniyos prohibition started, such as potatoes, peanuts and corn.

It would seemingly be quite difficult for anyone to mix up potatoes with chometz grain, so that rationale to regard potatoes as kitniyos is out. But, potatoes can be and are made into potato flour and potato starch, and there are those who do bake potato ‘bread’! If so, why would potatoes not be considered kitniyos? According to this, shouldn’tthey be forbidden for Ashkenazim to partake of on Pesach?[10]

In fact, and not widely known, the Chayei Adam seemingly considered potatoes kitniyos, and the Pri Megadim mentioned that he knows of such a custom, to prohibit potatoes on Pesach as a type of kitniyos.[11]However, the vast majority of authorities rule that potatoes are not any form of kitniyos and are permissible to all on Pesach.[12]

One of the main reasons for this is that at the time when the Ashkenazic Rishonim established the decree prohibiting kitniyos, potatoes were completely unknown! It is possible that had they been readily available they might have found themselves on the “forbidden list” as well! Yet, since they were never included, as well as do not fit most of the kitniyos criteria, contemporary authorities could not add “new types” to the list.[13]

However, it must be noted that there are other important reasons as well why potatoes were excluded. Of the four criteria given for the Gezeira of kitniyos, potatoes only fit one, that it can be made into flour and a ‘bread’ of sorts can be baked from it. No one would mix up a potato with a grain kernel![14]

As Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l noted,[15]Klal Yisrael never accepted the kitniyos prohibition to include potatoes.

We find that similar ‘New World’ logic was used by several Poskim, including Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l, to permit peanuts for Pesach for those who did not have an opposing minhag.[16] Yet, this was not as widely accepted[17] since peanuts, a true legume, and as opposed to potatoes, can get mixed up with grain. In fact, the minhag in Yerushalayim (dating back at least several centuries) is to consider both the peanut and its oil kitniyos.[18]

On the other hand, we find that another New World crop, corn, was seemingly unanimously included as part of the kitniyos prohibition.[19] Aside for the fact that the words ‘corn’ and ‘grain’ both stem from the same root, ‘corn’ is actually only the name for the grain ‘maize’ that is used in the United States, Canada, and Australia. In other parts of the English-speaking world and much of Europe, the term ‘corn’ is a generic term for cereal crops, such as real chometz - wheat, barley, oats, or rye. In fact, the infamous British Corn Laws (1815 - 1846) were concerning wheat and other grains, not corn![20]

Additionally, corn exhibits many characteristics of real deal kitniyos: it grows near other grains, has small kernels, is made into flour (that can be easily confused with grain flour), and corn bread is made from it. Therefore, since corn fits much of the criteria of kitniyos, as opposed to potatoes, it was included in the prohibition.

Contemporary Quinoa Controversy

All this said, which category should quinoa be a part of?

Like the potato and be excluded from the prohibition?
Or like corn and be considered kitniyos?
Actually, contemporary authorities and Kashrus agencies have been debating just this very question.

It turns out that quinoa is halachically similar to the peanut, meaning that its status is debated.

View # 1 - Quinoa is not Kitniyos [Star-K, cRc, and Kof-K]

Several major American Kashrus agencies, including the Star-K,[21] who follow the psak of Rav Moshe Heinemann, and the cRc (Chicago Rabbinical Council),[22] following the psak of Rav Gedalia Dov Schwartz, as well as the Kof-K,[23] maintain that quinoa is essentially Kosher for Pesach. Since it is not even remotely related to the five grains, (in fact, it is also not a legume and not botanically related to peas and beans, which are of the original species of kitniyos included in the decree) and was not around at the time of the kitniyos prohibition, it is not considered kitniyos. Additionally, the Star-K tested quinoa to see if it would rise, yet instead, it decayed, a sure sign that it is not a true grain. The only issue, according to them, is the fact that quinoa is processed in facilities that other grains are processed in. Therefore, they maintain, if quinoa is processed in facilities under special reliable Pesach supervision, there is no Pesach problem. In fact, every year since, the Star-K has given special kosher for Passover hashgacha on certain types of quinoa.[24]

View # 2 - Quinoa is Classified as Kitniyos

However, Rav Yisrael Belsky zt”l,[25] Rosh Yeshiva of Torah Vodaas and chief Posek for the OU disagreed. He argued that since quinoa fits every criterion for kitniyos, it should be included in its prohibition. Quinoa is the staple grain in its country of origin. It is grown in proximity of and can be mixed up with the five grains. It is collected and processed the same (and in the same facilities) as the five grains, and is cooked into porridge and breads the same as the five grains. He maintained that it should be compared to corn, which was, for similar reasons, included in the kitniyos prohibition.

Although quinoa is a New World food item and was not included in the original prohibition, nevertheless, he explained that that line of reasoning applies exclusively to items that are not clearly kitniyos, to foods that may share only several characteristics with kitniyos. However, since quinoa and corn would certainly have been included in the Gezeira had they been discovered, as they share every criterion of kitniyos, they are consequently by definition considered kitniyos. This stringent view is shared by Rav Dovid Feinstein, Rav Osher Yaakov Westheim of the Badatz Igud Rabbanim of Manchester, and Rav Shlomo Miller of Toronto, among other well-known Rabbanim.[26]

The OU and OK’s Approach

On the other hand, the OU’s other main Posek, Rav Herschel Schachter, Rosh Yeshivas Rabbeinu Yitzchak Elchanan (Y.U.), permits quinoa, concluding that if it processed in a special facility with no other grains, it should be essentially permitted for Passover use.

Due to the difference of opinions of their top Poskim, until fairly recently, the OU did not certify quinoa as Kosher for Pesach.[27] However, in late 2013, the OU made a decision allowing quinoa for Pesach, provided that it is processed with special Passover supervision. In fact, the OU recommended quinoa for Pesach 2014 and actually started certifying special Pesach processing runs.[28] [29] [30] [31] This certification continued for Pesach 2015, and currently the OU continues to grant special Pesach supervision annually for quinoa.[32]

Similarly, although the OK considered quinoa kitniyos for many years, in 2018 they reversed their longstanding policy and no longer regard quinoa as kitniyos. As such, they presently allow it to be served at their Pesach programs, provided that it has a hashgacha for Pesach. However, they currently do not actually grant certification to quinoa as ‘Kosher for Passover’.[33]

Other Agencies and Poskim

Although by 2019 all the American ‘Big Five’ kashrus agencies either permit or actually certify quinoa for Pesach, on the other hand, not every kashrus agency in North America agrees with this permissive ruling. For example, the Hisachdus HaRabbanim (CRC) does not recommend quinoa for Pesach as they consider it kitniyos, [34] as does the COR of Toronto [35] and the MK of Montreal. [36] This is also the Badatz Eidah Hachareidis of Yerushalayim’s approach, as in their annual Madrichei HaKashrus, they maintain that food items that are planted in the ground as seeds (zironim), harvested as seeds (garinim) and are edible, are considered kitniyos. As mentioned previously, the Yerushalmi Mesorah for this goes back centuries. They therefore quite definitively include quinoa as kitniyos. [37]

The View from Israel

Other Poskim who ruled similarly include Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv zt”l, who ruled that quinoa should be considered kitniyos[38] after being shown it and hearing from representatives of various kashrus agencies, and Rav Asher Weiss (the renowned Minchas Asher), who recently addressed this topic in his weekly halacha shiur,[39] as well as in several responsa (including one to this author; posted at the end of this article), and concluding that it is indeed kitniyos. This is also the opinion of Rav Yehoshua Yeshaya Neuwirth zt”l, venerated author of Shemiras Shabbat Kehilchasa, Rav Yaakov Ariel of Ramat Gan, and Rav Mordechai Najari of Ma’aleh Adumim.[40] Similarly, the current Ashkenazic Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rav Dovid Lau, wrote that quinoa is only permitted on Pesach for ‘Ochlei Kitniyos’.[41] This also appears to be the Israeli Rabbanut’s position as well.[42]

Additionally, the largest Sefardic kashrus agencies in Israel, the ‘Beit Yosef’ and Rav Shlomo Machpud’s ‘Yoreh Deah’, although giving hashgacha on quinoa for Pesach, both qualified that it is reserved exclusively for ‘Ochlei Kitniyos’, squarely calling quinoa kitniyos. In light of all this, in addition to the Badatz Eidah Hachareidis’s prevailingapproach of following the Yerushalmi Mesorah based on the Talmidim of the Vilna Gaon, it seems much less likely to see quinoa gracing Pesach tables in Eretz Yisrael.[43]

A Balanced Approach

Rav Avraham Blumenkrantz zt”l, in his annual Kovetz Hilchos Pesach, took a middle road approach, acknowledging both sides to this quinoa quarrel. He did not give carte blanche for everyone to use it for Pesach, but concluded that anyone who suffers from gluten or any Pesach-related allergies or conditions (ex. celiac) may comfortably use quinoa on Pesach without hesitation. This is also the opinion of Rav Dovid Ribiat, author of ‘The Thirty-Nine Melachos’, as well as the view of the London Beis Din (KLBD).[44]

Rav Mordechai Tendler, grandson of Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l and author of Mesores Moshe, told this author that this is the approach that he felt his venerated grandfather would have taken and not (as many mistakenly opine) that Rav Moshe zt”l would have permitted it outright, had quinoa been introduced while he was still alive.

In this author’s estimation, the point Rav Tendler was making is that there seems to be a common misconception that Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l, in his oft-cited teshuva defining peanuts’ kitniyos status gave a blanket hetter for any ‘New World’ food item. In this author’s opinion, this is not entirely correct, as was mentioned previously that everyone considers corn as kitniyos, even though it was introduced long after the kitniyos restriction. Rather, Rav Moshe used that as a sevara (and he was neither the first nor the only Posek to do so) to explain why potatoes were not included in the restriction, as well as peanuts for those who did not have an existing minhag.

Meaning, Rav Moshe held that minhag and similarity to all kitniyos factors also play an important role in classifying kitniyos; ergo, he did not intend to give a carte blanche hetter for every ‘new food’. As such, Rav Tendler was relating, it would seem tenuous at best to apply that teshuva as the exclusive basis to a hetter permitting quinoa for Pesach.

This is also the understanding of his uncle, Rav Moshe’s son, Rav Dovid Feinstein, as well as his father and Rav Moshe’s son-in-law, Rav Moshe Dovid Tendler; both whom do not recommend Ashkezaim eating quinoa on Pesach. In fact, this is explicitly written as Rav Moshe’s shittah in the recently published Mesores Moshe vol. 2, that Rav Moshe related that although corn is also a New World food item, it was nonetheless added to the restriction as it fits many of the same criteria of the prohibited kitniyos, as opposed to potatoes and peanuts.[45]

Quinoa Conclusion?

It seems that there truly is no quiet clear-cut conclusion to this contemporary kashrus controversy. Can one eat it on Pesach? One must ask his own personal, local halachic authority for guidance to clear up any quinoa / kitniyos kashrus confusion or questions.[46]

All else equal, in this author’s mind one thing is certain regarding a holiday that is all about Mesorah and tradition: quinoa was not served at Bubby’s Seder!

This article was written L’Iluy Nishmas Yisrael Eliezer ben Zev a"h - my dear Great-Uncle Larry Spitz, who was niftar this month, L’Zechus for Shira Yaffa bas Rochel Miriam v’chol yotzei chalatzeha for a yeshua teikif umiyad, and l’Refuah Sheleimah for Shoshana Leah bas Dreiza Liba, Mordechai ben Sarah, and Shayna bas Fayga.

Rabbi Yehuda Spitz, author of M’Shulchan Yehuda on Inyanei Halacha, serves as the Sho’el U’Meishiv and Rosh Chabura of the Ohr Lagolah Halacha Kollel at Yeshivas Ohr Somayach in Yerushalayim. He also writes the ‘Insights Into Halacha’ column for Ohr Somayach’s website: https://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/.
For questions, comments, or for the full mareh mekomos, please contact the author at yspitz@ohr.edu.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2023, 10:08:52 AM by imayid2 »

Online avromie7

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2023, 10:08:50 AM »
Rabbi Yehuda Spitzs has an excellent article on the subject and is the most comprehensive that I’ve seen. It’s on Ohr Somayachs website. I don’t have the exact link. I clipped it a couple years ago, here it is:
https://ohr.edu/5390
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2023, 12:37:46 PM »
Rabbi Yehuda Spitzs has an excellent article on the subject and is the most comprehensive that I’ve seen. It’s on Ohr Somayachs website. I don’t have the exact link. I clipped it a couple years ago, here it is:
thank you!

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2023, 09:52:42 AM »
Was debated (and eaten) at the table on Y"T, wanted to know what others did/thought.

Do you eat quinoa on Pesach?
yes

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2023, 11:37:48 AM »
From what i understand there is a Machlokes in general if you add things to the Gezeira made many years ago if the food was not discovered at the time. Does it get included in the Gezeira because it fits the criteria or not because Chazal did not include it.

From what I've seen here in Israel is that most, if not all, Chareidi Hechsherim will not give a KFP Hechsher on many of those products that were not around at the time of the Gezeira. In the US it seems like there's a big Machlokes HaPoskim.

On a personal note, although we ate by friends and relatives who served it so we ate it we would not buy it ourselves because we try to follow the Eretz Yisroel Derech.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2023, 11:39:05 AM »
From what i understand there is a Machlokes in general if you add things to the Gezeira made many years ago if the food was not discovered at the time. Does it get included in the Gezeira because it fits the criteria or not because Chazal did not include it.

From what I've seen here in Israel is that most, if not all, Chareidi Hechsherim will not give a KFP Hechsher on many of those products that were not around at the time of the Gezeira. In the US it seems like there's a big Machlokes HaPoskim.

On a personal note, although we ate by friends and relatives who served it so we ate it we would not buy it ourselves because we try to follow the Eretz Yisroel Derech.
Do people that eat quinoa also eat peanuts and corn?

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2023, 12:39:16 PM »
Do people that eat quinoa also eat peanuts and corn?
Peanuts is mefurash in Igros Moshe that its muttar.

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2023, 12:42:36 PM »
Peanuts is mefurash in Igros Moshe that its muttar.
Right.
Do people that eat quinoa also eat peanuts and corn?

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2023, 12:54:50 PM »
because we try to follow the Eretz Yisroel Derech.

Are you guys in Israel using cottonseed oil?

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2023, 01:16:31 PM »
Are you guys in Israel using cottonseed oil?
I don't believe Ashkenazi Chareidi Hechsheirim give a Hechsher to it.

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Re: Quinoa on Pesach
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2023, 01:36:50 PM »
I don't believe Ashkenazi Chareidi Hechsheirim give a Hechsher to it.

Wow. I know the Minchas Yitchak considered it Kitniyos. In America the hechsherim do not consider it to be Kitniyos.