Aukey Kicked Off Amazon After Fake Reviews Scandal

[yuneeq]

I never said anything to the contrary.

And you never said anything conclusive that shows RavPower's products are inferior or more expensive BECAUSE of this practice!

You don’t have to be a data analyst to understand that the top products in Amazon search are able to command higher prices and sell more units than products on the bottom or 2nd, 3rd page. Do you really need a research study to prove this?

[yuneeq]

https://www.junglescout.com/blog/importance-of-amazon-reviews/

[jj1000]

You don’t have to be a data analyst to understand that the top products in Amazon search are able to command higher prices and sell more units than products on the bottom or 2nd, 3rd page. Do you really need a research study to prove this?

You said that @ah giten and @EliJelly got scammed etc etc.

You don't know what they paid. You are perhaps arguing that the everyday price of these brands is higher than some competitors? Because I've watches the sale prices and they have had great deals.

You are being so general when talking about all of this, saying this can happen, and if you bought it we were scammed etc.

That just isn't true based on the fact that they had high rankings from buying reviews.

I've presented a few arguments in my past post, if you can show me how they don't make sense I'm all ears.

You have a conclusion about what they are doing and using this to support the conclusion, but the buying of reviews doesn't lead to that conclusion.

Let me know how you prove this isn't correct: By buying reviews they can offer a higher quality product for cheaper because they can sell more and make money off smaller margins due to high sales thanks to the unbelievable return on investment from that marketing strategy.

ETA:

(Also please note that many DDF'ers got products for very cheap on sale, you are likely saying the everyday price is a scam, but if someone got it on a great sale, you seem to also be saying it's a scam and overpriced, which makes no sense to me)

[EliJelly]

That’s what they scammed you to believe. They are literally investing tens/hundreds of millions yearly to deceive customers instead of offering better prices or better features for the same price. They can offer an inferior product at their current price and manipulate the reviews to display their product above products with better features or a better price. It’s simple math if you think about it but hard for people to grasp the hidden costs of what they don’t see.

Of course they can charge higher prices because of their great and numerous reviews. But since they are not an official prestigious brand but yet still have deep pockets, they could afford to offer almost giveaways so often- granted, to generate even more sales - but I exploited that. Having them gone will be something I will miss.

Eta. seeing now @jj1000 just pointed this out so elaborately

[yuneeq]

You said that @ah giten and @EliJelly got scammed etc etc.

You don't know what they paid. You are perhaps arguing that the everyday price of these brands is higher than some competitors? Because I've watches the sale prices and they have had great deals.

You are being so general when talking about all of this, saying this can happen, and if you bought it we were scammed etc.

That just isn't true based on the fact that they had high rankings from buying reviews.

I've presented a few arguments in my past post, if you can show me how they don't make sense I'm all ears.

You have a conclusion about what they are doing and using this to support the conclusion, but the buying of reviews doesn't lead to that conclusion.

Let me know how you prove this isn't correct: By buying reviews they can offer a higher quality product for cheaper because they can sell more and make money off smaller margins due to high sales thanks to the unbelievable return on investment from that marketing strategy.

ETA:

(Also please note that many DDF'ers got products for very cheap on sale, you are likely saying the everyday price is a scam, but if someone got it on a great sale, you seem to also be saying it's a scam and overpriced, which makes no sense to me)

Don’t remember saying that specific people were scammed, rather in general millions of consumers have been scammed. For all I care some people got free products and maybe even some got cash from them. And maybe some people got deal prices on their products are not considered scammed, however deals are a legitimate marketing expense that boosts sales over time. However without their illegal advantage they may have to offer even better deals to remain ranked at the top.

However let’s focus on the people that buy at regular price. What defines a fair market price? Well, whatever the free market price is. However Amazon is not a free market, and the US has laws forbidding fake reviews.

An honest company that can make the same exact product at the same exact cost, invest the same amount in legitimate marketing expenses, and follow every technique from these Chinese scammers, will not be able to get to the top of search at the same selling price, at the same rate as the company that also implements fake reviews. They have a few choices and they’re all bad for consumers. Sell at $12 to counterbalance the effect of fake reviews, but there’s no margins, and they can’t reinvest in marketing when you’re not generating cash. Consumers can’t find the product and save a few dollars. Sell at $15 and generate few sales. Or sell a better version with more features at $17, but since it’s not a level playing field, they have to spend more on marketing and are forced to charge $20. Or don’t sell this product at all, and let this other seller enjoy more sales and healthier margins.

In an honest market, both sellers are fighting neck and neck at $15, and eventually one drops to $14 to generate more sales that will make up for the lower margins. Price war may ensue, and the consumer is always buying at non-distorted prices.

In summary - when there’s a level playing field of honest selling, all consumers enjoy better prices, better deals, more product selection, and greater innovation. While this market distortion  might not be obvious, it’s real, and costing consumers millions each year.

[jj1000]

Don’t remember saying that specific people were scammed

Here

They might be scammers but they've got some awesome products for awesome prices.

That’s what they scammed you to believe.

&

The products I bought seem great from all of these companies, and far better priced than competitors. I don't see where I was scammed.
Great value for the price paid.

You could have bought the same thing from a different brand for a lower price.

[aygart]

You don’t have to be a data analyst to understand that the top products in Amazon search are able to command higher prices and sell more units than products on the bottom or 2nd, 3rd page. Do you really need a research study to prove this?

Why is that different than paying for better shelf or end cap placement in the supermarket?

[Yehuda57]

Why is that different than paying for better shelf or end cap placement in the supermarket?

Because it's done through fake reviews, which are not just against Amazon TOS but are illegal

[AsherO]

Why is that different than paying for better shelf or end cap placement in the supermarket?

You're asking why product placement in retail is different from fake/incentivized reviews?

[aygart]

Because it's done through fake reviews, which are not just against Amazon TOS but are illegal

You're asking why product placement in retail is different from fake/incentivized reviews?

I fully understand that it is an unethical method to get this placement, but it is still only a way to get to a regular normal marketing tactic and does not mean anything more about the product other than questionable ethics of the proprietors.

[Lurker]

I fully understand that it is an unethical method to get this placement, but it is still only a way to get to a regular normal marketing tactic and does not mean anything more about the product other than questionable ethics of the proprietors.

The assumption is that companies with better products are more likely to be reputable and not use black hat marketing. By forcing reputable (higher quality) companies to spend more on marketing in order to be seen, you cause them to raise their prices. The inferior companies can raise their prices, as well, and use the proceeds to fund more black hat marketing, which is significantly more cost efficient. It essentially ensures that the less ethical companies with inferior product will always get better placement, while prices continue to rise. It's also possible that the reputable companies will decide the margins aren't worth the effort anymore, and now the market has fewer better quality products (and less competition).

[yuneeq]

Here
&

No biggie, you still didn't address my argument. Just because the extra cost was hidden does not mean a consumer is not scammed. Unless you have an issue with semantics, I can word it differently. Fake reviews causes consumers to pay higher prices, have access to a smaller product selection, and less innovation. In some ways it's worse than petty theft.

I fully understand that it is an unethical method to get this placement, but it is still only a way to get to a regular normal marketing tactic and does not mean anything more about the product other than questionable ethics of the proprietors.

It is not a normal marketing tactic, if it was, then they'd have no incentive to break the law and risk suspension on Amazon. On Amazon an honest seller is at a distinct disadvantage competing directly with someone breaking the law. Given that many sellers are honest and would need to risk more money and sell at lower margins to compete with dishonest sellers, this causes unnatural price/selection distortions that are not easy to spot but is absolutely causing harm to all consumers.

[yuneeq]

Why is that different than paying for better shelf or end cap placement in the supermarket?

A better comparison would be bribing the buyer to order your products or give you better shelf placement. Would you have an issue with that?

[jj1000]

No biggie

It is a biggie, because it was what I was replying to. You said even if someone got a great deal they were still scammed. You seem to be taking that back, and I now have no problems.

[Lurker]

It is not a normal marketing tactic, if it was, then they'd have no incentive to break the law and risk suspension on Amazon. On Amazon an honest seller is at a distinct disadvantage competing directly with someone breaking the law. Given that many sellers are honest and would need to risk more money and sell at lower margins to compete with dishonest sellers, this causes unnatural price/selection distortions that are not easy to spot but is absolutely causing harm to all consumers.

I believe aygart is saying that spending to achieve optimal product placement is standard marketing, and if a company is paying people or store managers under the table to achieve that, it doesn't say anything about product placement in general or the quality of the product being placed. It only speaks to the ethics of the company paying under the table. That said, I think that companies with higher quality products are less likely to resort to black hat marketing. I don't know if there's absolute proof of that, though.

[Lurker]

It is a biggie, because it was what I was replying to. You said even if someone got a great deal they were still scammed. You seem to be taking that back, and I now have no problems.

Scammed isn't the right word. "Used" is probably better. If a one-time great deal on a specific product leads to overall higher prices on inferior products going forward, all consumers lose in the long run, including those who may have gotten a good deal or two n the process.

[jj1000]

Scammed isn't the right word. "Used" is probably better. If a one-time great deal on a specific product leads to overall higher prices on inferior products going forward, all consumers lose in the long run, including those who may have gotten a good deal or two n the process.

Plenty of consumers profit off a failing model. But you can call it used if you want, every loss leader deal is using a consumer. That's done by many many major companies all the way down to brand new totally ethical sellers.

[aygart]

That said, I think that companies with higher quality products are less likely to resort to black hat marketing. I don't know if there's absolute proof of that, though.

That can be different when dealing with varying cultures.

[Lurker]

Plenty of consumers profit off a failing model. But you can call it used if you want, every loss leader deal is using a consumer. That's done by many many major companies all the way down to brand new totally ethical sellers.

No one's saying they invented the wheel, but allowing yourself to be used by an unethical company hurts you (and everyone else) much more than being used by ethical companies. You got "scammed" by being tricked into helping an unethical company dominate the market, lowering the overall quality of products available and raising the prices on all products in that market.

*By "you" I mean "me." I love RAVPower, and I've gotten a bunch of the deals over the years. I don't know that I wouldn't do it again, even knowing the damage being done. A dollar in my pocket now vs unknown costs later... dunno.

[yuneeq]

It is a biggie, because it was what I was replying to. You said even if someone got a great deal they were still scammed. You seem to be taking that back, and I now have no problems.

I still believe they were scammed out of better deals, selection, and innovation. If you disagree that's fine, my main concern and argument is for the vast majority of consumers, which you continually fail to address.