Peace In The Middle East Master Thread

[Just A Jew]

Joe has been consistent on Hamas.

Since October 2023 or since 2006? Real question (I don't waych/listen to him regularly).

Giving money to Iran is not the same as giving money directly to Hamas.

Within the ideology of appeasement that Western governments have widely adopted in recent history, I can make a case that it makes more sense to give money to Hamas than Iran. Bigger upside and smaller scope of fallout if it doesn't work.

[yelped]

This is part of what I've been saying, Israel has been making stupid decisions to gain favor and part by imaginary rules since 1948. They need to start behaving like their lives depend on it.

This is part of what Yehuda57 is saying with the PR war.

[CountValentine]

The US funded and armed the Taliban.

I'm hardly an historian, and I'm kind of pumpkin brained right now, but I'm sure they're are dozens of such instances where the US backed terrorists and murderous regimes only to regret it later on.

This is part of what I've been saying, Israel has been making stupid decisions to gain favor and part by imaginary rules since 1948. They need to start behaving like their lives depend on it.

Why do you keep bringing up what the US has done. US is not Israel.
Either what Israel is doing is right or not. The US is not in that equation.

[CountValentine]

Since October 2023 or since 2006? Real question (I don't waych/listen to him regularly).

I don't watch him a lot. He has always labeled Hamas as terrorist, and you can't deal with them.

[Just A Jew]

I don't watch him a lot. He has always labeled Hamas as terrorist, and you can't deal with them.

And does he have a practical solution for not dealing with them and not being accused of the genocide of the people under their rule?

[Just A Jew]

Why do you keep bringing up what the US has done. US is not Israel.
Either what Israel is doing is right or not. The US is not in that equation.

As the country which holds the most influence over Israel's actions, the US' ideology and own  actions are certainly relevant.

[Yehuda57]

Why do you keep bringing up what the US has done. US is not Israel.
Either what Israel is doing is right or not. The US is not in that equation.

I was responding to comments here that already brought up the US.

I agree 1000%. It was wrong, stupid, and contributed to enabling Oct 7th.

[CountValentine]

And does he have a practical solution for not dealing with them and not being accused of the genocide of the people under their rule?

Unfortunately no one has a practical solution. If anyone did, we would have seen it by now.

[Just A Jew]

Unfortunately no one has a practical solution. If anyone did, we would have seen it by now.

Hence the Monday morning QB. As reliant as Israel is on being a part of the international community, they had no choice but to engage with Hamas. You can't yell at them for engaging and also accuse them of being responsible for the condition of the people in Gaza.

[CountValentine]

I was responding to comments here that already brought up the US.

I agree 1000%. It was wrong, stupid, and contributed to enabling Oct 7th.

I worded it wrong as I didn't mean "you" personally.
I think you would agree about there being a lot of the US did this, the US did that, over and over again.
Just get tired of hearing it when this is not the US war.

[Yehuda57]

I worded it wrong as I didn't mean "you" personally.
I think you would agree about there being a lot of the US did this, the US did that, over and over again.
Just get tired of hearing it when this is not the US war.

It just shows that everyone makes these wrongheaded bargains and calculations. People wanted to try a pacifist approach with Hitler. Didn't really work out too well.

[CountValentine]

It just shows that everyone makes these wrongheaded bargains and calculations. People wanted to try a pacifist approach with Hitler. Didn't really work out too well.

Was there an actual deal/bargain with Hamas?

[Just A Jew]

I think you would agree about there being a lot of the US did this, the US did that, over and over again.
Just get tired of hearing it when this is not the US war.

I'm not sure I agree that it isn't our war, but let's assume that it isn't. We have a huge stake in this war. We are by far the most vocal and influential "outside" party to this war. As an ally and friend who feels that we can tell Israel what they can/can't/should/shouldn't do on a very regular basis, our history with these types of situations is very relevant, IMO.

[DaasTora]

Was there an actual deal/bargain with Hamas?

Giving them the Gaza Strip?

[CountValentine]

I'm not sure I agree that it isn't our war, but let's assume that it isn't. We have a huge stake in this war. We are by far the most vocal and influential "outside" party to this war. As an ally and friend who feels that we can tell Israel what they can/can't/should/shouldn't do on a very regular basis, our history with these types of situations is very relevant, IMO.

If we are telling Israel what to do then are they basically giving "US" the middle finger?

[CountValentine]

Was this a message strike?
We can hit you anywhere and anytime we want.

[aygart]

If we are telling Israel what to do then are basically giving "US" the middle finger?

Not at all."I'm so terribly sorry but it doesn't look like we can listen to you now"

[Just A Jew]

If we are telling Israel what to do then are basically giving "US" the middle finger?

No, more like a, "I hear you, I appreciate our relationship, and often I like your advice, but it's still my life and I have to make my own decisions."

[CountValentine]

Not at all."I'm so terribly sorry but it doesn't look like we can listen to you now"

No, more like a, "I hear you, I appreciate our relationship, and often I like your advice, but it's still my life and I have to make my own decisions."

Thank you for giving the PC versions on the middle finger. 

[Just A Jew]

No, more like a, "I hear you, I appreciate our relationship, and often I like your advice, but it's still my life and I have to make my own decisions."

The US is like a fabulously wealthy guy who's been divorced 3 times and insists on giving relationship advice. He's successful, so you listen, and he has experience, so some of what he says may be helpful, but if he's going to tell people to do exactly what he did to have a successful relationship, you better believe they're gonna bring up his relationship history.

Not a great analogy, but you get the point.