Author Topic: Israel's good friend Obama...  (Read 130617 times)

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #560 on: December 29, 2016, 02:30:25 PM »
As far as the resolution being toothless, there are reasons it may have sharper teeth than you realize as well as it being significantly worse that the resolutions previous presidents allowed to pass.
You could be right but as of right now nothing has changed. One thing we know for a fact is building more settlements has not resulted in peace.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18994
  • Total likes: 15130
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #561 on: December 29, 2016, 02:33:40 PM »
You could be right but as of right now nothing has changed. One thing we know for a fact is building more settlements has not resulted in peace.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Once the underlying resolution is in place it is one giant leap closer. It is very reasonable to be upset about giving that ability.

There are many factors besides the settlements. Maybe the same thing being done over and over again is how the Palestinians are being shown how they can get more without needing to make concessions?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CZ60

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 429
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #562 on: December 29, 2016, 02:41:52 PM »
I am not cornering anyone. If you don't want to answer the question as asked that is fine. Don't answer it and don't twist what I an saying.Your answer is yes. See how easy that was for about the 100th time.

I don't quite follow. I didn't twist anything, I merely asked follow-up questions to your questions so I can better understand what you meant by your vague question and respond accordingly. You didn't respond to my questions and moved along fine until I made an analogy. Do you disagree with my analogy? If yes, say "That analogy does not accurately reflect my question" and explain why, but don't accuse me of twisting your words just because I don't want to answer a vague question with a one word answer. That's not twisting. It's called debating.

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5410
  • Total likes: 15308
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #563 on: December 29, 2016, 02:42:25 PM »
You could be right but as of right now nothing has changed. One thing we know for a fact is building more settlements has not resulted in peace.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Let me correct that:

"I am wrong, because as of right now international law and US policy has changed. One thing we know, is that when Israel *did* enact a settlement freeze for 10 months, Abbas still refused to even sit down at a negotiating table. Moreover, Palestinians officials have already stated that Kerry's framework is not acceptable, saying the issue is Israel's very right to exist [not settlement expansion]. Further, land concessions have resulted in more Israeli (and Palestinian) deaths, not peace.

"'Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.' - Albert Einstein"

Offline CZ60

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 429
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #564 on: December 29, 2016, 02:43:28 PM »
You could be right but as of right now nothing has changed. One thing we know for a fact is building more settlements has not resulted in peace.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

And one thing we know is that withdrawing from land has not resulted in peace. See: Gaza.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #565 on: December 29, 2016, 02:45:11 PM »
Once the underlying resolution is in place it is one giant leap closer. It is very reasonable to be upset about giving that ability.
One has every right to be upset. Just make sure it is not misplaced. Just about everything in this thread is anti-BO. He backs the largest military aid package for Israel and that is meaningless to most here. That doesn't sound like an enemy of Israel to me. How about to you or is that stupid question to?

"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #566 on: December 29, 2016, 02:45:42 PM »
Do you all have me on speed dial?  :)

Do I need to clarify what all means for JJ?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline CZ60

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 429
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #567 on: December 29, 2016, 02:50:28 PM »
One has every right to be upset. Just make sure it is not misplaced. Just about everything in this thread is anti-BO. He backs the largest military aid package for Israel and that is meaningless to most here. That doesn't sound like an enemy of Israel to me. How about to you or is that stupid question to?

With the incitement and violence that might erupt after the UN vote, they're going to need every penny of it and probably more.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #568 on: December 29, 2016, 02:55:13 PM »
With the incitement and violence that might erupt after the UN vote, they're going to need every penny of it and probably more.
Hopefully that won't happen. Is it possible you can answer the question I just asked? Does supporting the largest military aid package ever for Israel sound like something a enemy would do?
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline A3

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 3477
  • Total likes: 99
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #569 on: December 29, 2016, 02:56:44 PM »
For y'all's enjoyment.

Check out @DiamondandSilk's Tweet: https://twitter.com/DiamondandSilk/status/814556873466712065?s=09

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 8912
  • Total likes: 4102
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #570 on: December 29, 2016, 02:57:10 PM »
You could be right but as of right now nothing has changed. One thing we know for a fact is building more settlements has not resulted in peace.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

The Israeli's also took many showers that never resulted in peace.
Also Israeli's ate many a pizza pie and that didn't result in peace.

I guess they must stop otherwise they are insane.
Visibly Jewish

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #571 on: December 29, 2016, 03:01:36 PM »
The Israeli's also took many showers that never resulted in peace.
Also Israeli's ate many a pizza pie and that didn't result in peace.

I guess they must stop otherwise they are insane.
That is some great analogies there.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 5410
  • Total likes: 15308
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #572 on: December 29, 2016, 03:09:08 PM »
Hopefully that won't happen. Is it possible you can answer the question I just asked? Does supporting the largest military aid package ever for Israel sound like something a enemy would do?

It's not meaningless. But when you see how this past week has unfolded, and you see that aid in the context of it being a phenomenal deal for the US defense industry, then maybe he is not as pro-Israel as $38b suggests.

With all the things going on internationally and domestically, the one thing he decides to go out with a bang with is Israeli settlements? Not exactly screaming "friend."

I, for one, don't think he or Kerry are "enemies" of Israel. I think they are trying to save Israel from itself (or at least its right wing governance.) I think they they are lashing out based on personal vendettas, and the result is foolish, misguided foreign policy that will harm Israel, not help her. The effect of their actions is "anti Israel," no matter their intentions.

Online zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1734
  • Total likes: 1723
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: 412
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #573 on: December 29, 2016, 03:13:42 PM »
Big difference between Kerry's anti-Israel speech (yes you are reading that correctly) and Power's speech to the UN. You think Bibi's constant attacks had anything to do with it?

No. There have been many reports that this is the speech Kerry has wanted to give for the past 2 years.

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #574 on: December 29, 2016, 03:20:07 PM »
Are these things a enemy of Israel does?

While past presidents since Harry Truman have rallied to the Israeli cause, none has provided greater material support than President Obama. Within weeks of taking office, Obama ordered the provision to Israel of more than 50 advanced “bunker buster” bombs that would be necessary were military action necessary against Iran’s nuclear program.  In providing the bunker busters to Israel, President Obama reversed the decision taken by his predecessor, George W. Bush.

Obama more than doubled American funding for the Israeli Missile defense system known as David’s Sling—in the last year of President Bush’s term, the U.S. committed $52 million to the program; this year, that number rose to $110 million.

And only under this president’s watch has another important air-defense system, called Iron Dome, received funding. President Obama’s $205 million commitment jump-started Iron Dome in 2011, and his Administration has promised that hundreds of millions more U.S. dollars are on their way to assist with this vital defense system. These and other Obama-backed defense measures protect Israeli citizens from the threats they face every day -– threats from Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists, and from the government or Iran itself.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline CZ60

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 429
  • Total likes: 38
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #575 on: December 29, 2016, 03:20:45 PM »
Hopefully that won't happen. Is it possible you can answer the question I just asked? Does supporting the largest military aid package ever for Israel sound like something a enemy would do?

Here's your one word answer : No.

I don't think he's anti-Israel. He's anti-Bibi and his approach and he thinks that if Bibi won't listen to him nicely, then he'll get it done in the international arena. Sounds like an Abbas tactic to me...

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #576 on: December 29, 2016, 03:23:45 PM »
It's not meaningless. But when you see how this past week has unfolded, and you see that aid in the context of it being a phenomenal deal for the US defense industry, then maybe he is not as pro-Israel as $38b suggests.
Get real here. It has pro-Israel written all over it.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline since1492

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2016
  • Posts: 169
  • Total likes: 3
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: ירושלים
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #577 on: December 29, 2016, 03:26:35 PM »
you can see he was totally trying to play tough love on Israel in the speech, but he did a bad job
the masmid atzum
מאז

Offline JTZ

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Posts: 2098
  • Total likes: 230
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #578 on: December 29, 2016, 03:27:22 PM »
Here's your one word answer : No.

I don't think he's anti-Israel. He's anti-Bibi and his approach and he thinks that if Bibi won't listen to him nicely, then he'll get it done in the international arena. Sounds like an Abbas tactic to me...
THAN YOU for the one word answer!!!

I sure hope he is anti-Bibi after the constant anti-US attacks from him. Bibi has Israel's best interest in mind and BO has the US's.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline springles

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 1980
  • Total likes: 44
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #579 on: December 29, 2016, 03:28:56 PM »
That is some great analogies there.
I do not always disagree with you or your points in these political threads but I have to say that when I read the following post I thought the same thing as yuneeq
You could be right but as of right now nothing has changed. One thing we know for a fact is building more settlements has not resulted in peace.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
His analogies are to point out the silliness in connecting two facts as one being caused by the other. And you can say what you want but that post definitely implies that continuing to build settlements is insane because it has continuously not resulted in peace (I am not going to even say that it implies that building more settlements has impeded peace but one can easily argue that your post implied that too).  So to make that point yuneeq gave two other "facts" that did not result in peace. They are as meaningful as the one you gave, which is to say not meaningful at all.
I am not sure why I posted this because I am pretty sure you are aware of all this but still felt it needed to be said. You have often said that when you have good arguments and you choose to argue bad arguments then you take away from the good points that you can make. I think your above post can benefit from that lesson.