Author Topic: Israel's good friend Obama...  (Read 135889 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2016, 11:58:53 AM »
So the literally entire world says that Israel is wrong, but Bibi dismisses them off hand...

Wait, is Israel a world super power or a tiny, surrounded and dependent nation?

A little humility and reality check is in order ASAP!

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2016, 12:01:44 PM »
A:  Semantics matter here.  Hyperbolic terminology just demonstrates an inherent bias.
B:  The Jewish Quarter would not be an illegal settlement, since it's not a settlement.

And no one has answered my question, what harmful effects with this resolution cause?
Why is the Jewish Quarter not a settlement?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #82 on: December 25, 2016, 12:02:02 PM »
So the literally entire world says that Israel is wrong, but Bibi dismisses them off hand...

Wait, is Israel a world super power or a tiny, surrounded and dependent nation?

A little humility and reality check is in order ASAP!

Or maybe you need some Jewish-pride, and a reality-check yourself. Israel has been standing up to the whole world for nearly 70 years now. We might be small in number, or in GDP, but that isn't where our power comes from :)
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #83 on: December 25, 2016, 12:04:10 PM »
Why is the Jewish Quarter not a settlement?

In terms of actual definition, you may be correct, that residing in them constitutes a settlement.  But for all typical intents and purposes, to be a settlement that the UN and Geneva Convention take issue with, it must be constructed on "occupied" land.

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #84 on: December 25, 2016, 12:06:08 PM »
In terms of actual definition, you may be correct, that residing in them constitutes a settlement.  But for all typical intents and purposes, to be a settlement that the UN and Geneva Convention take issue with, it must be constructed on "occupied" land.
The buildings in the Jewish Quarter were constructed after 67 and therefore according to this resolution were constructed on occupied land.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #85 on: December 25, 2016, 12:12:03 PM »
The buildings in the Jewish Quarter were constructed after 67 and therefore according to this resolution were constructed on occupied land.

Wow, I didn't realize that.  Fair enough.

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #86 on: December 25, 2016, 12:17:32 PM »
One thing the resolution certainly does is make a negotiated resolution more difficult. The worst thing to do prior to negotiations is to make the expectations of one side stronger. THis is especially if it crosses wat is almost certain to be across a red line of the opposing side. There is almost no way that Israel can agree to what this resolution gives an impression as being the starting point of negotiations. This creates a situation where a negotiated agreement is much more difficult to achieve.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Emkay

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #87 on: December 25, 2016, 12:28:10 PM »



And no one has answered my question, what harmful effects with this resolution cause?
For one, lends false credence to the hypocritical and rabble rousing group BDS.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #88 on: December 25, 2016, 12:59:31 PM »

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #89 on: December 25, 2016, 01:20:39 PM »
One thing the resolution certainly does is make a negotiated resolution more difficult. The worst thing to do prior to negotiations is to make the expectations of one side stronger. THis is especially if it crosses wat is almost certain to be across a red line of the opposing side. There is almost no way that Israel can agree to what this resolution gives an impression as being the starting point of negotiations. This creates a situation where a negotiated agreement is much more difficult to achieve.

That's fair.  But I don't believe it will have any bearing on any concessions Israel may make if and when peace is approached.

For one, lends false credence to the hypocritical and rabble rousing group BDS.


And therefore what?

Read this:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/unscr-2334-israeli-settlements

Good article, but a lot of "mights."

Offline Emkay

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #90 on: December 25, 2016, 01:23:27 PM »


And therefore what?
Promotes, fuels, and spreads the growth of hate. Has economic repercussions.

Offline JTZ

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"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #92 on: December 25, 2016, 02:01:44 PM »


That's fair.  But I don't believe it will have any bearing on any concessions Israel may make if and when peace is approached.
Is bearing may be limited on Israeli concessions but may have bearing on Palestinian concessions. It certainly puts them in a weaker position going into negotiations which is the entire reason the Palestinians wanted this.

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Deal Guy

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Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #94 on: December 25, 2016, 03:10:06 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-obama-preparing-a-parting-shot-at-israel/2016/10/27/770e7fb6-9c79-11e6-b3c9-f662adaa0048_story.html?utm_term=.819cad87427f
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/07/trump-should-challenge-clinton-on-obamas-terrible-two-state-solution-plan-debate-israel-palestine-middle-east/

Is he being alarmist or is this a legit concern?

Which of the two candidates would be more likely to uphold what he does or fight against it? Is there anything either of them could possibly do?

What else can Obama possibly do after the election?


First, Obama can't "do" anything, so yes, this is simply alarmist. He can try to place pressure much like Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, but it's unlikely to affect anything -- not this late in his term anyway.

Hillary will likely take a middle-road, much like Obama and Bill Clinton.

With Trump, I would be very concerned. He cancelled a trip to Israel because he didn't like something that Netanyahu said. He also hesitated to say that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, and only "clarified" his stance once under pressure. Despite his rants on Twitter about he supports Israel, he simply can't be trusted.
Why can't he do what the article says by allowing a two state through the security council? He can do that without congress.


I would be very surprised if that happened. He will likely focus on social justice issues as he has been doing all along.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #95 on: December 25, 2016, 10:31:42 PM »
Or maybe you need some Jewish-pride, and a reality-check yourself. Israel has been standing up to the whole world for nearly 70 years now. We might be small in number, or in GDP, but that isn't where our power comes from :)
Let's talk about Bibi for a second. A mechalel shabbos befarhesya misyavenik..
If I was an average gentile I would think he's deranged. At this point he doesn't have a single friend in the world. Yet he is still defiant, and has the chutzpah to "lecture" the world... I honestly think some humility is in order.

Even ABC says he has basically nothing at all to rely on at this time. I agree that he has been humbled. But where is the humility?

This is an extremely dangerous situation.


Offline JTZ

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #96 on: December 25, 2016, 10:46:34 PM »
This is an extremely dangerous situation.
Not sure why you would think that. He is putting his hopes in such an upstanding and stable person.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #97 on: December 25, 2016, 10:47:41 PM »
Not sure why you would think that. He is putting his hopes in such an upstanding and stable person.
LOL and it's still a couple of week untill the savior arrives..  lots can happen gd forbid.

Offline Super Speed

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #98 on: December 25, 2016, 10:48:57 PM »
Not sure why you would think that. He is putting his hopes in such an upstanding and stable person.
At least even according to you there's a chance Trump will do good even though it may depend on what side of the bed be wakes up on, with Hussein there was never a chance.


Offline JTZ

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #99 on: December 25, 2016, 10:53:26 PM »
LOL and it's still a couple of week untill the savior arrives.. 
Funny you should use the word "savior". The way some here worship him I was thinking of another word.
"LESS IS MORE" It is the cumulative effect that kills deals!!! How many times do I have to say this?  >:(