Geopolitics and Wars of Israel

[aygart]

People turn on the news and see the deaths and destruction and then go to Starbucks. They don't have the time for arguments. Lets be honest with each other.

Ask the average "Joe" that has seen the news about what is going on. Out of 1000 you will have 999 (where did I see those numbers) saying it is disproportionate if you ask them. Are they getting worked up about it, no. They are worried about their next stimulus check. 

Those people barely even know there is a war going on there and have no real opinion at all. That is not who anybody here is referring to.

[aygart]

What if a terrorist is a car with his wife and children. Do you take him out? You might not care but the rest of the world will.

Ask Seal team six about Bin Laden's daughter in law

[CountValentine]

Look under the HERE'S WHAT TO KNOW:

Only mention of hamas casualties.   Disgusting

This what I am talking about. You (not just you) only see/read what you want to.
The Palestinian death toll climbed to 192, including 58 children. A disabled Israeli man was killed in a Tel Aviv suburb on Saturday, raising the Israeli death toll to 10.

[CountValentine]

Ask Seal team six about Bin Laden's daughter in law

Thank you for proving my point.

[CountValentine]

Those people barely even know there is a war going on there and have no real opinion at all. That is not who anybody here is referring to.

So there are referring to the nutcases and the majority of the population. OK now we are getting somewhere.

[CountValentine]

Do you believe this of every conflict around the world?

If they are taking billions from us you got that straight.

[aygart]

So there are referring to the nutcases and the majority of the population. OK now we are getting somewhere.

Now let us go through who you just called nutcases and what positions they fill.

[CountValentine]

Pick your starting point to paint the picture you want (and while you're at it, don't bother to get the other side of the story).

I am going to guess I am the most informed person in the world on the other side of the story. If not then you all get an F as a grade!

[CountValentine]

Now let us go through who you just called nutcases and what positions they fill.

Sure so we can fill another 312 pages. 

[CountValentine]

False. The raw numbers show disproportionate deaths. It says nothing about the response.

So you are saying Hamas bombs killed all these individuals?

[Lurker]

So you are saying Hamas bombs killed all these individuals?

No, I'm saying raw numbers of how many people have died tell you nothing about who killed them or how they were killed, so it's completely irrelevant to "response."

[EliJelly]

Wow this is never ending. People must really enjoy running the hamster wheel.

[CountValentine]

Wow this is never ending. People must really enjoy running the hamster wheel.

[CountValentine]

No, I'm saying raw numbers of how many people have died tell you nothing about who killed them or how they were killed, so it's completely irrelevant to "response."

So most were not killed by Israel's bombing?

[Lurker]

So most were not killed by Israel's bombing?

Look at what you wrote:

It seems we can only agree on two items:
1 - the raw numbers show a disproportional response
2 - many only look at raw numbers and not other context

The RAW numbers tell you nothing other than how many people died. It does NOT tell who how they died or who killed them. How can you possibly decide whether the response was disproportionate if you have no idea what the action was? Ergo, #1 is false. Full stop.

[CountValentine]

Look at what you wrote:

The RAW numbers tell you nothing other than how many people died. It does NOT tell who how they died or who killed them. How can you possibly decide whether the response was disproportionate if you have no idea what the action was? Ergo, #1 is false. Full stop.

The raw numbers I have seen tell exactly how they died. Now if don't believe those accounts then that is another story.
Before you even ask, Yes the one side is inflating numbers.

[Lurker]

The raw numbers I have seen tell exactly how they died. Now if don't believe those accounts then that is another story.
Before you even ask, Yes the one side is inflating numbers.

Those aren't numbers. Those are explanations of the numbers. And they are very much in dispute. The numbers themselves tell you NOTHING, other than a body count.

[CountValentine]

Those aren't numbers. Those are explanations of the numbers. And they are very much in dispute. The numbers themselves tell you NOTHING, other than a body count.

Don't listen to me. Here is a smart person:

Absolutely disproportionate in terms of raw numbers. I think that's a matter of pride, rather than shame. It means Israel is better at defending their people, and have better accuracy offensively.

[Lurker]

Don't listen to me. Here is a smart person:

Disproportionate deaths do not equal disproportionate response. Not sure where the disconnect is.

[CountValentine]

We were talking about the disproportionate response and that was your response.

You have to be living in a cocoon if you believe using deaths and destruction as a metric this wasn't a disproportionate response.
If you want to dispute the numbers, fine. You want to say that is not a fair metric, fine. If you use that metric it is indisputable!!!