Author Topic: NY Times vs. Chassidim  (Read 135128 times)

Offline WAM

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 @CountValentine: יישר כוחך for the c/p

If they caved to every religious belief there would be no public schools.
We'll make it easy for them. Leave us alone - their system is more broken than ours.
This is a case of people yelling at the neighbors for having grass 1/2" taller than the local ordinances allow for. But their own grass is a marsh 3' taller than allowed. Anybody yelling "the Jews" or "the Hasids" should look in their own yard first.

The NYT should do an exposé on their "own" sorry excuse for a educational system if they're going to publish this "unbiased article."

Offline shapsam

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2018: 110,000 Jewish day school and yeshiva kids
https://nypost.com/2018/10/10/yeshiva-student-population-explodes-in-nyc/

2000: 1,066,000 students in NYC public schools
2009:    991,000
2018:    948,000
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/complex-demographics-new-york-public-private-schools

So over the past 20 years, NYC has lost about 110,000 public school students, and probably still has the infrastructure to absorb the 110,000 Jewish students.  Obviously, not all will want to switch schools, as many yeshivas and day schools meet NYS standards.  So let's say 50,000 students.  Squeeze a few more kids into each class, bus students to other neighborhoods, perhaps buy some buildings, like the now-empty yeshivas.  Hire some bilingual (Yiddish-English) ESL teachers.  Should be doable.
If it's going to be done, it'll be with the vast majority of the 110k students.

The main problem for them will be, where will they get the additional ten billion or so in funding.

And I have a felling the now empty yeshiva buildings won't be up for sale...

There also won't be that many Yiddish speaking people that will take the teaching jobs.

Offline Alexsei

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It's ok, we'll just turn to violence and looting
Jews ≠ Zionists
Palestinians ≠ Hamas
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Offline biobook

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You really think that Satmar would have their boys taught by a female public school teacher for even one day?
If their religious beliefs don't allow damage teachers, would the DOE be required to accommodate that?
@WAM Trying to figure this out.  Do you have some kind of filter that replaces the word "female" with "damage"?

Offline CountValentine

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It's ok, we'll just turn to violence and looting
The article stated you are already doing the second part.  :)
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Online UKinNYS

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Offline Dan

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline biobook

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@biobook I’m legitimately curious why you feel the voter registration smear was included, whether it was useful and relevant information and if it was specifically designed to denigrate the community.
I just went back to read the article. 

"Smear" = a false accusation intended to damage someone's reputation.  What part do you think was false?

The general topic of voting does seem relevant to the article because near the beginning they say "Warned about the problems over the years, city and state officials have avoided taking action, bowing to the influence of Hasidic leaders who push their followers to vote as a bloc and have made safeguarding the schools their top political priority." 

So it make sense that they'd provide evidence that leaders are influencing voters in unusual ways, given that they claim that this explains the lack of government oversight until now.


Offline WAM

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If their religious beliefs don't allow damage teachers, would the DOE be required to accommodate that?

@WAM Trying to figure this out.  Do you have some kind of filter that replaces the word "damage" with "damage"?
No. But I do apologize for the mistake. I meant to write damage. No, not damage. I meant to write the opposite of male. Wait - is there such a concept? An opposite gender? What's that?

ETA: thanks for the heads up, I fixed the typo 😁

Online skyguy918

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2018: 110,000 Jewish day school and yeshiva kids
https://nypost.com/2018/10/10/yeshiva-student-population-explodes-in-nyc/

2000: 1,066,000 students in NYC public schools
2009:    991,000
2018:    948,000
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/complex-demographics-new-york-public-private-schools

So over the past 20 years, NYC has lost about 110,000 public school students, and probably still has the infrastructure to absorb the 110,000 Jewish students.  Obviously, not all will want to switch schools, as many yeshivas and day schools meet NYS standards.  So let's say 50,000 students.  Squeeze a few more kids into each class, bus students to other neighborhoods, perhaps buy some buildings, like the now-empty yeshivas.  Hire some bilingual (Yiddish-English) ESL teachers.  Should be doable.
This is so head in the clouds it's laughable. Do you know anyone who works in the DOE? Because I know dozens and dozens in my relatively small social circle. My grandfather was a principal in the DOE for many, many years. There is absolutely no way they would be able to accommodate even a small fraction of yeshiva students without at least a year head start, and even then it would be a disaster, with outcomes far worse than the status quo.

Offline Dan

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I just went back to read the article. 

"Smear" = a false accusation intended to damage someone's reputation.  What part do you think was false?

The general topic of voting does seem relevant to the article because near the beginning they say "Warned about the problems over the years, city and state officials have avoided taking action, bowing to the influence of Hasidic leaders who push their followers to vote as a bloc and have made safeguarding the schools their top political priority." 

So it make sense that they'd provide evidence that leaders are influencing voters in unusual ways, given that they claim that this explains the lack of government oversight until now.


https://twitter.com/davidmdraiman/status/1569095249930100742
I went back to see what happened to the tweet, and apparently it's "protected". So here goes a screenshot just so it makes some sense.


Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline biobook

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This is so head in the clouds it's laughable.
As is the idea that all hasidic students will attend public schools.

Offline biobook

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Online skyguy918

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As is the idea that all hasidic students will attend public schools.
It's rhetorical, and you're responding with laughable counterarguments.

Offline biobook

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It's rhetorical, and you're responding with laughable counterarguments.
Please pardon my laughable rhetoric.   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Offline Yehuda57

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I just went back to read the article. 

"Smear" = a false accusation intended to damage someone's reputation.  What part do you think was false?

The general topic of voting does seem relevant to the article because near the beginning they say "Warned about the problems over the years, city and state officials have avoided taking action, bowing to the influence of Hasidic leaders who push their followers to vote as a bloc and have made safeguarding the schools their top political priority." 

So it make sense that they'd provide evidence that leaders are influencing voters in unusual ways, given that they claim that this explains the lack of government oversight until now.

I already provided a few examples upthread of ways they either lied or deliberately misframed things devoid of context.

It's common practice for communities to have political committees that suggest candidates to vote for. I've heard about numerous instances on liberal shows such as This American Life describing how black communities create sample ballots that people take into the polls and copy it exactly when they vote. Candidates meet with these groups when they are campaigning and make all sorts of promises to do things in the interests of these groups. None of this is viewed as problematic. It is (rightly) called good community organizing. It's done in Brooklyn by other groups ALL THE TIME. But this behavior is only described as some kind of nefarious political quid pro quo scheme when Jews do it.

Consider this choice of phrase in the opening paragraphs:
"they drill students relentlessly, sometimes brutally, during hours of religious lessons conducted in Yiddish"

Or:
"Parents there said administrators coached them on applying for vouchers and other programs."
So maybe low-income PSs should learn to coach their parents too, or just imply that that is sinister Jew behavior.

They include funding for daycare for the end of day schooling, as well as funding for the older students, again as if it is somehow nefarious and not simply receiving grants exactly as they are intended. The former most definitely not requiring any kind of educational standards whatsoever.

Even if the "investigative report" part of the article is accurate, and that's a big if, they add in so much garbage and easily refutable claims so as to show the entire piece for the smear it is.

Offline Dan

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?
Don't see the connection.
Even if the "investigative report" part of the article is accurate, and that's a big if, they add in so much garbage and easily refutable claims so as to show the entire piece for the smear it is.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline imayid2

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@biobook
If Jewish schools weren’t provided any outside funding, would you defend government intrusion into their curriculum?

Offline Oiheivyisroel

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@biobook
If Jewish schools weren’t provided any outside funding, would you defend government intrusion into their curriculum?

… my opinion is that the funding is just a tool they use. YAFFED doesn’t care about money, they care about our education, our lineage and our generations to come. If Chasidic schools fail to follow a certain curriculum, the parents may be punished r”l for neglecting their children's education. That's what they want.
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Offline yesitsme

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