Rally in Washington 11/14/23

[JMHO]

(And no, I can't tell you my position in the Moetzes and how I know. Sorry.)

Can you give us a hint? Is it the Satmar Mikvah or Bais Eliyahu coffee room?

[yelped]

123-Rosh Limbaugh: Can you please point me to the Shevet HaLevi where you say he says that a woman speaking is considered Kol Isha? I seem to remember a Mefurash Rema that says a speaking voice is not Kol Isha. I doubt he disagrees with that, and I don't remember any other achronim disagreeing. I do remember some (not most) earlier achronim saying that a women singing Zemiros is not Kol Isha.

[JMHO]

They did. They spoke to the Aguda Askanim who were organizing the Aguda part of the event.

Wait- there was an Agudah part of the event? Was was there?

[YossieW]

the Aguda part of the event.

what part was that?

[123-Rosh]

Wait- there was an Agudah part of the event? Was was there?

Sorry I misspoke. I meant to say the Aguda's role in promoting the event.

[neveryou]

Huh? Who says it was Jewish? It was a pro-Israel March. Why does it have to be a Jewish event? In fact, most pro-Israel voters in the US aren't even Jewish.

if theres a pro israel event in a church or strip club you going? its a pro israel event.

[123-Rosh]

if theres a pro israel event in a church or strip club you going? its a pro israel event.

No. This event wasn't in a church or a strip club.

[123-Rosh]

123-Rosh Limbaugh: Can you please point me to the Shevet HaLevi where you say he says that a woman speaking is considered Kol Isha? I seem to remember a Mefurash Rema that says a speaking voice is not Kol Isha. I doubt he disagrees with that, and I don't remember any other achronim disagreeing. I do remember some (not most) earlier achronim saying that a women singing Zemiros is not Kol Isha.

Here is a link for a discussion of whether female public speakers are even allowed according to Halacha. It seems that Rav Moshe is lenient, but the Shevet Halevi (who was the Posek Hador for most ultra Ortho Chasidim) holds that its asur.
https://www.halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Listening_to_Women_Sing
See the Section on "Non-Singing Voice" and the footnotes.

Lakewood Rabonim hold that its mutar (like Rav Moshe) but that its not tznius. This is why the Rabonim backtracked, after first being told by the Aguda Askanim that there wasn't going to be kol isha, which they took to mean no female speakers.

[YossieW]

See attached response from R' Aaron Feldman

seems kind of shocking that the organizers would give Agudah veto power when they there not even listed as an involved organization or that he would not think that Israeli politicians or Hatikvah would be part of this rally

I do kind of agree with him about the pastor imho it was one thing that should have been left out if you are not having any Rabbis you should have no clergy at all

also does not jive with @123-Rosh explanations

[123-Rosh]

Can you give us a hint? Is it the Satmar Mikvah or Bais Eliyahu coffee room?

A family member is on the Moetzes. That's all I'll say.

[JMHO]

Sorry I misspoke. I meant to say the Aguda's role in promoting the event.

IMHO they didn't promote it.
They shared the publicly available information in a lukewarm, not endorsing or encouraging statement to cover their bases with the organizers (JFNA & Conf of Presidents).

[neveryou]

No. This event wasn't in a church or a strip club.

my point, just bc its a pro israel event doesnt mean you should go.

By the way, women were signing hatikva, when the crowd sang together.

[123-Rosh]

seems kind of shocking that the organizers would give Agudah veto power when they there not even listed as an involved organization or that he would not think that Israeli politicians or Hatikvah would be part of this rally

also does not jive with @123-Rosh explanations

That was R' Ahron Feldman's reason for backtracking. This was NOT the reason for the Lakewood faction of the Moetzes backtracking.
And R' Ahron Feldman wasn't the one who put out a letter telling people not to go, like the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva did. All he did was "retract his recommendation to go"

[123-Rosh]

IMHO they didn't promote it.
They shared the publicly available information in a lukewarm, not endorsing or encouraging statement to cover their bases with the organizers (JFNA & Conf of Presidents).

In other words, they made believe they were promoting it.

[123-Rosh]

my point, just bc its a pro israel event doesnt mean you should go.

By the way, women were signing hatikva, when the crowd sang together.

Thats true.
And my point was that just because it isn't a Jewish event per se, it doesn't mean you shouldn't go.

[YossieW]

That was R' Ahron Feldman's reason for backtracking. This was NOT the reason for the Lakewood faction of the Moetzes backtracking.
And R' Ahron Feldman wasn't the one who put out a letter telling people not to go, like the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva did. All he did was "retract his recommendation to go"

but at least he was willing to explain it regardless of whether you agree or disagree and  I hope the rest of them choose to follow that and at least explain

[JMHO]

In other words, they made believe they were promoting it.

They know exactly what they are doing, what do you mean?

[123-Rosh]

but at least he was willing to explain it regardless of whether you agree or disagree and  I hope the rest of them choose to follow that and at least explain

Good point. I doubt the Lakewood Roshei Yeshiva feel the need to explain their actions to anyone, and probably won't. The Lakewood crowd will continue to follow them no matter what. Rav Ahron Feldman, on the other hand, deals with the Baltimore crowd, which needs explanations.
But if you want to get an explanation from one of the Lakewood Rabonim, I would suggest you call Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin and ask him (and please record the conversation and share it here for all of us to enjoy.)

[123-Rosh]

They know exactly what they are doing, what do you mean?

Of course! They knew that they were making believe that they were promoting it, so that the Conference would think they were promoting it. But the Moetzes allowed them to make believe, for reasons explained above.
And then the Moetzes backtracked, for reasons explained above.

[imayid2]

יהרג ואל יעבור? Is it even a given that in a case of יהרג ואל יעבור one is allowed to preemptively kill themselves?

It is explicit that it is forbidden